Rack and pinion steering feel
Thread Starter
C6 the C5 of tomorrow
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,665
Likes: 2
From: Twin Cities Minnesota
Rack and pinion steering feel
Finally having added power steering to my rack and pinion conversion is a huge improvement. But the steering is way too light too much like driving a video game.
I mean the steering is much lighter than my minivan!
Is it just me or do others feel this way?
Do you get used to it?
It is better than stock or non-power Rack and Pinion however!
One other question, I am using the stock style pump. Is anyone using the newer GM pump? is it better?
Jim Shea? Do you know if the flow / pressure rates of the two?
I mean the steering is much lighter than my minivan!
Is it just me or do others feel this way?
Do you get used to it?
It is better than stock or non-power Rack and Pinion however!
One other question, I am using the stock style pump. Is anyone using the newer GM pump? is it better?
Jim Shea? Do you know if the flow / pressure rates of the two?
Last edited by 427V8; Oct 15, 2005 at 11:40 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Originally Posted by 427V8
Finally having added power steering to my rack and pinion conversion is a huge improvement. But the steering is way too light too much like driving a video game.
I mean the steering is much lighter than my minivan!
Is it just me or do others feel this way?
Do you get used to it?
It is better than stock or non-power Rack and Pinion however!
I mean the steering is much lighter than my minivan!
Is it just me or do others feel this way?
Do you get used to it?
It is better than stock or non-power Rack and Pinion however!
Would you feel comfortable going around a road course like that?
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,677
Likes: 1
From: Potomac Falls VA
Originally Posted by 427V8
Finally having added power steering to my rack and pinion conversion is a huge improvement. But the steering is way too light too much like driving a video game.
I mean the steering is much lighter than my minivan!
Is it just me or do others feel this way?
Do you get used to it?
It is better than stock or non-power Rack and Pinion however!
One other question, I am using the stock style pump. Is anyone using the newer GM pump? is it better?
Jim Shea? Do you know if the flow / pressure rates of the two?
I mean the steering is much lighter than my minivan!
Is it just me or do others feel this way?
Do you get used to it?
It is better than stock or non-power Rack and Pinion however!
One other question, I am using the stock style pump. Is anyone using the newer GM pump? is it better?
Jim Shea? Do you know if the flow / pressure rates of the two?
Shane
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
i thought Mr Shea said the power steering pump rate didn't impact the "lightness" that it was some internal valving that did that?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
i've mentioned this before but, why not install a rack bypass with an electric solenoid operated valve. Flip a switch and turn your assist on and off.
Assuming the rack has a good feel and feedback with no assist.
Assuming the rack has a good feel and feedback with no assist.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 10
From: Big Pine Key FL
I have the new style GM pump and a steeroids...
Simple fix... 13 inch steering wheel vs a 14. kinda like changing gears.... it worked out perfect.
I havent had it on a road course yet but we own both sides of about a mile or so of twisty roads up on the farm and it feels real good.
The added bonus is that I have some room for my fat body...
Simple fix... 13 inch steering wheel vs a 14. kinda like changing gears.... it worked out perfect.
I havent had it on a road course yet but we own both sides of about a mile or so of twisty roads up on the farm and it feels real good.
The added bonus is that I have some room for my fat body...
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,906
Likes: 0
From: Berlin
Originally Posted by 427V8
But the steering is way too light too much like driving a video game.
It might not be that bad if the Vette was my only car, but it's not. After getting out of my Benz (which isn't even in great condition), I feel like I have no control. It's a little scary. I can drive normally with confidence after a few hours, but never really feel like pushing it in corners anymore. I drove it much harder with the stock steering (on winding roads, not highway).
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Originally Posted by aharte
I made almost exactly the same comment here a year or two ago. I actually prefer the stock system.
It might not be that bad if the Vette was my only car, but it's not. After getting out of my Benz (which isn't even in great condition), I feel like I have no control. It's a little scary. I can drive normally with confidence after a few hours, but never really feel like pushing it in corners anymore. I drove it much harder with the stock steering (on winding roads, not highway).
It might not be that bad if the Vette was my only car, but it's not. After getting out of my Benz (which isn't even in great condition), I feel like I have no control. It's a little scary. I can drive normally with confidence after a few hours, but never really feel like pushing it in corners anymore. I drove it much harder with the stock steering (on winding roads, not highway).
thanks for being honest about it, otherwise i'd have one too and be pissed off.
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Drifting
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,906
Likes: 0
From: Berlin
Originally Posted by turtlevette
have you tried disconnecting the pump?
Has anyone here tried it both ways?
Thread Starter
C6 the C5 of tomorrow
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,665
Likes: 2
From: Twin Cities Minnesota
Turtle,
It's too light to be doin any autocross, thats fer sure. It's loads better but I am such a perfectionist, It has to be right or I'm not happy.
84????
a 13" wheel is definitly a good idea...
Aharte
I've tried it both ways, I think it's better with power...
Here's more detail on the subject;
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...vie&forum_id=3
BTW,
I'm actually working on a solution. It's speed sensitive variable effort. It's adjustable from the drivers seat and can hook up to mechanical speedo cables or electronic ones.
I've done the proof of concept and it's pretty good.
It needs a little more adjustability and I think the steeroids lower pump pressure idea is probably a good fit. I mean even parking it's too easy as far as I'm concerned.
It's too light to be doin any autocross, thats fer sure. It's loads better but I am such a perfectionist, It has to be right or I'm not happy.
84????
a 13" wheel is definitly a good idea...
Aharte
I've tried it both ways, I think it's better with power...
Here's more detail on the subject;
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...vie&forum_id=3
BTW,
I'm actually working on a solution. It's speed sensitive variable effort. It's adjustable from the drivers seat and can hook up to mechanical speedo cables or electronic ones.
I've done the proof of concept and it's pretty good.
It needs a little more adjustability and I think the steeroids lower pump pressure idea is probably a good fit. I mean even parking it's too easy as far as I'm concerned.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 473
Likes: 2
From: Champlin Minnesota
Originally Posted by 427V8
Finally having added power steering to my rack and pinion conversion is a huge improvement. But the steering is way too light too much like driving a video game.
I mean the steering is much lighter than my minivan!
I mean the steering is much lighter than my minivan!
I thought the same thing after I installed my Steeroids, this is much easier and more responsive steering than my minivan. By the way, I had a force feedback steering wheel for my ps2, and it was more like the old rag joint & ball setup in the vette than the r&p setup...Takes some getting used to, but better in the long run I personally think.David
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 19,659
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From: Lenoir City Tennessee
Ci 6, 8 & 10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
I like the way the car feels with the steeroids installed and on power. At least mine feels pretty darn good to me. I have put about 600 miles on it so far. Just came home from driving to Bowling Green and the NCM. About 400 miles round trip and most of it on the Interstate running 80-85 MPH. The car drives like a new one. Just turn the wheel a little and change lanes. It took a little getting used to but now I like the feel of it.
Team Owner
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SPARTAN
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St. Jude '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by bobs77vet
i thought Mr Shea said the power steering pump rate didn't impact the "lightness" that it was some internal valving that did that?
Are all of the racks you guys are comparing from the same source? Different racks, different valves = different feel.
The pump can have an effect. Assuming a sufficient flow rate, the relief pressure of the pump can have an effect on the steering feel. With a lower pressure, you get less assist for a given valve angle.
Also, which holes on the knuckle are you using? The holes closer to the hub will make the steering faster, but also slightly heavier.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,001
Likes: 113
From: Saginaw Michigan
It is true that cutting back the flow out of your power steering pump will make your steering feel heavier. The reason it will feel heavier is that the low fluid flow through the power steering control valve will make the valve less responsive. This lack of response will translate to a heavier feel - NOT a crisper, heavier effort feel - just heavier.
Now here is the drawback. Usually, by the time that you have cut the flow so far back that the steering feels heavier, you will be at a point where "pump catch" will rear its ugly head. For instance, if you have to make a quick evasive turn (i.e. a kid runs out into the street in front of you) you will find that when you rapidly whip the steering wheel you will suddenly feel a total lack of power assist. This is because you are trying to move the assist cylinder faster than the pump is supplying oil. In other words, you feel "pump catch." Most people would describe that their steering "locked up." It didn't "lock up" but the abrupt lack of assist will sometimes cause people to freeze and stop steering. NOT A GOOD CONDITION!
Jim
Now here is the drawback. Usually, by the time that you have cut the flow so far back that the steering feels heavier, you will be at a point where "pump catch" will rear its ugly head. For instance, if you have to make a quick evasive turn (i.e. a kid runs out into the street in front of you) you will find that when you rapidly whip the steering wheel you will suddenly feel a total lack of power assist. This is because you are trying to move the assist cylinder faster than the pump is supplying oil. In other words, you feel "pump catch." Most people would describe that their steering "locked up." It didn't "lock up" but the abrupt lack of assist will sometimes cause people to freeze and stop steering. NOT A GOOD CONDITION!
Jim
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,001
Likes: 113
From: Saginaw Michigan
As ddecart mentioned, there are many, many, Saginaw CTO R&P gears. I just don't know if the company that remanufactures the gears and then sells them to other companies takes into account all of the different valves, t-bar sizes, available stroke, pinion to rack ratio, etc.
The stroke of the rack and the number of input shaft turns are easy to measure. The actual valve effort requires that you place the gear on a test stand; lock the gear so it won't stroke; hook up a hydraulic power supply; and measure the oil pressure versus the torque on the input shaft at a particular point.
Jim
The stroke of the rack and the number of input shaft turns are easy to measure. The actual valve effort requires that you place the gear on a test stand; lock the gear so it won't stroke; hook up a hydraulic power supply; and measure the oil pressure versus the torque on the input shaft at a particular point.
Jim
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,600
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From: Valencia (near LA) CA
Originally Posted by 84rzv500r
I have the new style GM pump and a steeroids...
Simple fix... 13 inch steering wheel vs a 14. kinda like changing gears.... it worked out perfect.
......
The added bonus is that I have some room for my fat body...
Simple fix... 13 inch steering wheel vs a 14. kinda like changing gears.... it worked out perfect.
......
The added bonus is that I have some room for my fat body...
I drove it on Willow Springs for a driving school and It felt great.
The "Pump catch up" that Jim described is sometimes an issue when steeroids is combined with the Hydroboost. Paul at Hydrtech suggested modifying the stock pump. That helped, but I thing the ideal solution might be a better pump.
~Jay
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Well, as some of you know, my '92 G Am rack of junkyard origins and same rack as steeroids, with a late shark steering wheel is fine by me....quick maneuvers and all....
I have a C4 serp setup/pump though....
and '92 vette wheels/tires....
wonder if you all with the comments about light steering have stock rims and nearly stock tires???
get some rubber on that road, IF that's the case....
GENE
I have a C4 serp setup/pump though....
and '92 vette wheels/tires....
wonder if you all with the comments about light steering have stock rims and nearly stock tires???
get some rubber on that road, IF that's the case....
GENE
Pro
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 695
Likes: 0
From: No matter where you go, there you are. No VA
Originally Posted by mrvette
Well, as some of you know, my '92 G Am rack of junkyard origins and same rack as steeroids, with a late shark steering wheel is fine by me....quick maneuvers and all....
I have a C4 serp setup/pump though....
and '92 vette wheels/tires....
wonder if you all with the comments about light steering have stock rims and nearly stock tires???
get some rubber on that road, IF that's the case....
GENE
I have a C4 serp setup/pump though....
and '92 vette wheels/tires....
wonder if you all with the comments about light steering have stock rims and nearly stock tires???
get some rubber on that road, IF that's the case....
GENE
