Engine oil priming ..need some help
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 18
From: Lake Ozark, MO
Engine oil priming ..need some help
Was ready to fire up the BB for the first time in over 2 years. Filled it with oil and tried to prime it with a 3/8 drill....everything cranked good and oil was starting to pump but wouldnt come up the pushrods ...I suspected I need more drill power. Went and bought a 1/2 drill... stuck it on the priming tool and now I got a nasty ratching sound. Removing the tool and using a screwdriver I can see that the pump shaft is looses and wobbling from side to side..it will turn..but makes that "not good something broke" ratching sound. What has happened??? I put oil in the pump before I installed it....
Pump was a new Mildon HV
Pump was a new Mildon HV
Drifting
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,634
Likes: 2
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, the World
I don't know why everyone uses a drill to prime the engine. I just use my distributor with the gear removed and turn it by hand. Last time was just a few weeks ago and I got the oil to come out the pushrods OK. I figure if the oil is getting to the tops of the rockers it is everywhere else. I am using a HV oil pump as well. Only takes a few minutes.
The shaft which you drive with the distributor/primer is an extension on top of the oil pump shaft. In low perf applications it is held in place with a nylon sleeve. Factory Hi perf is a metal sleeve(or at least it is in mine). It should move about a little but maybe you have accidently pulled it out of the positive engagement in the sleeve. See if the shaft can just be lifted out. The sleeve may have broken allowing the intermediate shaft to spin next to the oil pump shaft grabbing the shaft every 180 degrees of rotation.
And one last thought, is the drill set to minimum torque and slipping giving you the ratchet sound?
The shaft which you drive with the distributor/primer is an extension on top of the oil pump shaft. In low perf applications it is held in place with a nylon sleeve. Factory Hi perf is a metal sleeve(or at least it is in mine). It should move about a little but maybe you have accidently pulled it out of the positive engagement in the sleeve. See if the shaft can just be lifted out. The sleeve may have broken allowing the intermediate shaft to spin next to the oil pump shaft grabbing the shaft every 180 degrees of rotation.
And one last thought, is the drill set to minimum torque and slipping giving you the ratchet sound?
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 1
From: grand prairie texas
I went down to Autozone and borrowed thier priming tool. I had the same problem when I primed my new engine for the first time last month. Didnt get oil out of all pushrods. What I did was after priming a little bit I rotated the engine and primed again and went thru that process a couple of times until all pushrods were preoiled. The oil pump shaft will move around until you either get the priming tool or lock down the distributor. When you are priming there is a lot of resistance on that drill motor. I darn near burned up my half inch drill.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 18
From: Lake Ozark, MO
The drill doesn't have a clutch adjustment.. the sleave on this pump was a metal one..so what what your telling me is maybe when I pulled the priming pump out I pulled the shaft loose from the pump... ?? I'm assuming I can get that reseated without pulling the pan (again)? I sure hope thats the fix....was runing my Christmas Eve thinging about having to pull the pan....
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 91
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From: Chattanooga TN
If you do not have the distributor base as your priming system you will not carry oil over to the passenger side of the engine. I have had the "ratcheting" sound before but it was when I was turning the pump backwards, after I had oil pumping it stopped, is there a chance you dont have enough oil in the pan.
sal
sal
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 18
From: Lake Ozark, MO
I went back out to the garage and the shaft is seated...I can feel the pump engage immediately when I turn the shaft (clockwise - right) with a screw driver...and I can fell the gears moving in the pump thru the screwdriver handle and they are not smooth but bumpy. I don't know how I could have "broken" this pump? Really stressed tonight since I have taken this pan off three time before for other oversights .
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: pr, frederick md.
Originally Posted by stingraysallie
If you do not have the distributor base as your priming system you will not carry oil over to the passenger side of the engine. I have had the "ratcheting" sound before but it was when I was turning the pump backwards, after I had oil pumping it stopped, is there a chance you dont have enough oil in the pan.
sal
sal
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,098
Likes: 378
From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Drop the pan and then the oil pump to inspect.
Originally Posted by Hvymtlc5
I went back out to the garage and the shaft is seated...I can feel the pump engage immediately when I turn the shaft (clockwise - right) with a screw driver...and I can fell the gears moving in the pump thru the screwdriver handle and they are not smooth but bumpy. I don't know how I could have "broken" this pump? Really stressed tonight since I have taken this pan off three time before for other oversights .
I also could not see oil out the p-rods on drivers side during priming and after research found the oil galley on that side of cam is sealed by the dist housing - small hole in housing provides dist shaft with lube. Without dist all oil spills into open hole. Well this is how the sb is designed so i have to admit the BB could be different.
Next PITA was that tool was bent and starting to produce metal chips - from the drill chuck area (slipping its grip) i think. So i vacuumed up the metal chips (home-made small tube attached) and inspected until satisfied clean inside.
Now if u got pump lumps then stop and drop it for inspection. I won't expect just changing oil will help now. Yes this will cause a major delay in startup but save ur entire engine - much faster and easier in the long run.
BTW any sb dist will fit ur BB so u can pick 1 up at the local boneyard and rip all the unused garbage off and modify shaft to chuck up in drill (1/2") - u need to grind off the gear teeth also.
Hope this helps and sorry to provide the bad news. :o
cardo0
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Lake Ozark, MO
Just for information purposes to help try and solve this problem.. the oil in the engine is new (ready for first start) and it's full. The priming tool is a rental from Autozone desigend for the SB and BB Chevy engine... I still don't see how I could have ruined a new oil pump especially since I did fill it with oil before install. I ran the 3/8 drill only for about 60 seconds the first time before I realized it did not have enough power to pump oil.
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From: Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me...
St. Jude Donor '09
Originally Posted by Hvymtlc5
Just for information purposes to help try and solve this problem.. the oil in the engine is new (ready for first start) and it's full. The priming tool is a rental from Autozone desigend for the SB and BB Chevy engine... I still don't see how I could have ruined a new oil pump especially since I did fill it with oil before install. I ran the 3/8 drill only for about 60 seconds the first time before I realized it did not have enough power to pump oil.
I burned out a 3/8" drill trying to prime my BB. Just didn't have enough. Even with a 1/2" I only got to about 30lb of pressure, even then I still didn't get oil "shooting" out the #1 & #2 set of push rods. More like a little dribble on that set.
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From: Lenoir City Tennessee
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To prime mine, I have an old distributor with the guts pulled out and a 1/2 drill. I usually run the drill at a medium speed and keep it steady. It takes a while but you will eventually get oil out of all of the pushrods. I just made oil trickle out the pushrods and was done with it.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 18
From: Lake Ozark, MO
Guys the issue isn't how to prime...its' the noise the pump is making when I turn it by hand or with a drill.. it makes exactly the same ratcheting sound a normal pump makes if you turn it in reverse (tried it on the old pump this morning) It didn't do this last week when I first tried to prime the engine ...does anyone think the pump is broke??? Should I try and start it anyway?
last question...should I see any oil pressure on the guage just by cranking the engine?
Mike
last question...should I see any oil pressure on the guage just by cranking the engine?
Mike
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 2,897
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From: Moon Township PA
When I used an old distributor shaft as my priming tool, I did see oil pressure on the gauge. It is was minimal but it did register. Can't answer the question about the noise though.
Gary
Gary
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,472
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From: Lake Ozark, MO
If the pump shaft has come loose from the pump the distributor won't seat...right? The distributor seats fine....leading me to believe the shaft is still engaged with the pump..the ratcheting noise is what worries me
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,629
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From: Somers CT
I don't get this electric drill stuff to prime the engine, why don't you disconnect the 12v from the ignition system so no spark can be delivered and use the starter to turn the engine over? You're not going to do it for a real long time and if the engine was put togethor properly with lub in the moving surfaces, it'll have plenty of lubrication until the oil starts to flow which should be almost immediately.
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 125
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From: Lexington KY
Originally Posted by Hvymtlc5
Guys the issue isn't how to prime...its' the noise the pump is making when I turn it by hand or with a drill.. it makes exactly the same ratcheting sound a normal pump makes if you turn it in reverse (tried it on the old pump this morning) It didn't do this last week when I first tried to prime the engine ...does anyone think the pump is broke??? Should I try and start it anyway?
last question...should I see any oil pressure on the guage just by cranking the engine?
Mike
last question...should I see any oil pressure on the guage just by cranking the engine?
Mike