Nitrogen in your tires?
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 3
From: East Waterboro Maine
Originally Posted by jlaw68
wonder if you put helium in your tire and did a burn out would it sound like donald duck? 
So is it really worth $5 a tire to have to put air in your tires once every 4 months instead of once every 2 months? I don't see any real big benifit for a street application. (It certainly won't help your MPG)
Race Director
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 10,643
Likes: 8
From: Foxfield CO 1970 Convertible
I see two benefits - no oxygen and no moisture. Neither would be remotely noticeable on a street car. If your tires oxidize from the inside before you wear them out, you aren't driving nearly enough... 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,083
Likes: 2
From: Montreal Qc.
Your wallet will be 20 dollars lighter, and your gas mileage will increase accordingly. If you carry the 20 dollars around in the car in pennies it might make a difference 
Seriously though, I'm offended when I have to put 25 cents into a machine to get REGULAR AIR, no way I'll spend 20 bucks.
Seriously though, I'm offended when I have to put 25 cents into a machine to get REGULAR AIR, no way I'll spend 20 bucks.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,012
Likes: 5
From: Granbury, TX
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
if <20% of your volume escapes from your tires...what will happen to the tire pressure?
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 32,519
Likes: 1
From: central America
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Oxygen gas (32 atomic mass) is larger then nitrogen gas (28 atomic mass), so if its diffusion that you are worrying about, using nitrogen doesn't seem to make sense to me. Don't forget that water is smaller then both of these (18 atomic mass). The inertness of the nitrogen may be prefereable to the oxygen, but I have to admit, I don't know all the chemistry that occurs in a tire. Basically to make a good decision on this subject we'd have to know how the diffusion coefficients based on the material of the tire.
trw
trw
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
If you keep your tires properly filled w/air ... nitrogen will NOT offer any gas mileage advantage over air ... actually your gas mileage w/ air does improve very, very slightly as tire "grows" & OD becomes larger ... nitrogen fills negate this effect ... w/nitrogen the pressures do not change as much so the tires do not grow as much. We use nitrogen in regional asphalt circle track cars to limit tires from growing; limits resulting tire stagger changes.
It's a certainty that the car mfg would fill w/ nitrogen if it improved mpg; even if any improvement were as little as less than half-a-percent.
It's a certainty that the car mfg would fill w/ nitrogen if it improved mpg; even if any improvement were as little as less than half-a-percent.
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Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Brochures claim 2% increase in mileage and 25% increase in tire life, improved safety from fire and environmental friendly. All the oxygen escaping from your tires is polluting the air.
If you get 150,000km from a tire with air you know get 187,500 with nitrogen.
It says right here in the brochure I have open beside the keyboard that all these things are true.
Brochures don't lie
If you get 150,000km from a tire with air you know get 187,500 with nitrogen.
It says right here in the brochure I have open beside the keyboard that all these things are true.
Brochures don't lie
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 1
From: grand prairie texas
Originally Posted by yellow 72
Commercial air lines have used it for years, don't think they would spend the extra if there were no benefit......
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by Clint's C3
If the 20% O2 escapes and you continue replace with an 80% nitrogen mixture, won't you evenually end up with 100 nitrogen? OK, theoetically you wil never get to 100% but could get pretty close.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
nitrogen molecules are larger than air and therefore don't permeate through the tire so you don't have to check the rpessure as often, also it's "dry" so there's less pressure change with temperature. I say go for it.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 32,519
Likes: 1
From: central America
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Originally Posted by 72 stingray owner
Oxygen gas (32 atomic mass) is larger then nitrogen gas (28 atomic mass), so if its diffusion that you are worrying about, using nitrogen doesn't seem to make sense to me.
trw
Pro
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 511
Likes: 4
From: Phoenix AZ
I suspect the difference in pressure changes over temperature are mostly related to the effects of mositure in the tires.
But remember that water is ionic and a highlypolarized molecule. It collects together in chains that mimic a larger molecule. Otherwise water wouldn't be a liquid at room temp. Also another reason water wants to expand so much when it turns to steam. If there’s moisture in your tires and it heats up and transitions to steam it’s going to increase the tire pressure more that without it.
But has anyone compared N2 and 100% dry air (like from a SCUBA tank)?
Originally Posted by 72 stingray owner
.... Don't forget that water is smaller then both of these (18 atomic mass). ...
But has anyone compared N2 and 100% dry air (like from a SCUBA tank)?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by 72 stingray owner
Cripes, you're right twin turbo, that'll teach me to run my mouth without checking my values again. I should have said heavier. Nitrogen is larger physically then oxygen (17.3 cc/mol vs 14.0 cc/mol) (need to review my quantum mechanics again) so that could affect the diffusion. Although oxygen is denser then nitrogen, which also can also affect diffusion. Either way, I'm not sure filling your tires with nitrogen is worth $5 a tire.
trw
trw
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 32,519
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From: central America
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Originally Posted by 82Vette'ster
I suspect the difference in pressure changes over temperature are mostly related to the effects of mositure in the tires.
Also another reason water wants to expand so much when it turns to steam. If there’s moisture in your tires and it heats up and transitions to steam it’s going to increase the tire pressure more that without it.
Also another reason water wants to expand so much when it turns to steam. If there’s moisture in your tires and it heats up and transitions to steam it’s going to increase the tire pressure more that without it.
Also, is there enough water in the tires to get this reaction? With nitrogen and oxygen making up the lions share of the air, I can't imagine the water content being more then 3%. But given the correct conditions, it might be possible.
Good thread topic.
TT, good point. I don't generally argue with results.
trw
Cruising
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Nitrogen in Tires
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I have not put it in my L82 76 simply because we have the front end apart - "HOWEVER" my daily drive is 140 miles round trip in a 98 LeSabre (sure ain't a Vette). I didn't see where you are from , but in OH TireDiscounters does free rotation, balancing and Nitrogen. I've bought 4 sets of tires from them and so far they have taken care of me. I've notice the tires lasting longer and don't seem to lose air when I travel for weeks at a time when the car sits at the airport. If you can get it with a program that I have, use it. But to pay for it, you can do just as well keeping you tires inflated properly.
Originally Posted by AirMarcus
Is anyone using nitrogen instead of air in your tires? I have heard that it decreases tire temps and keeps pressure longer. Is it worth the xtra 5 bucks?
Advanced
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: '70 Coupe - SoCal
Originally Posted by 72 stingray owner
How warm do you think the tires are going to get? Do they really get hot enough to steam the water? I realize that the increased pressure will accelerate this phase change, thus the temperature doesn't have to be 212 degrees F.
Also, is there enough water in the tires to get this reaction? With nitrogen and oxygen making up the lions share of the air, I can't imagine the water content being more then 3%. But given the correct conditions, it might be possible.
Good thread topic.
TT, good point. I don't generally argue with results.
trw
Also, is there enough water in the tires to get this reaction? With nitrogen and oxygen making up the lions share of the air, I can't imagine the water content being more then 3%. But given the correct conditions, it might be possible.
Good thread topic.
TT, good point. I don't generally argue with results.
trw
Pro
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Zimo
That's why they use it in aviation (rather than compressed air) Keeps ice from forming in the tires.