what transpired: i was having a bit of of a problem with consistant power from the solenoid to the starter, so i decided to replace the solenoid. the symptoms were that the key wouldn't always activate the starter even though there was power to the solenoid through the starter switch and the neutral lockout (automatic, L48, 1978 ) and the gauges powered up as did all the other elecrical components (ie: headlights, etc). i disconnected the battery at both posts (+ and -) and proceeded to remove the battery line and the 2 wires with the fusable links attached to the solenoid before removing the starter itself. since i couldn't reach the "S" lead without removing the starter, that wire wasn't removed until the starter was actually unbolted and taken down. i removed the solenoid on my bench and replaced it with a new one, reassembled it and reinstalled it by reversing the order (attaching the "s" terminal before actually mounting the starter, then re-installing the battery and fusable link wire leads) . i reconnected the battery and now everything is absolutely dead. no guage activation, no starter activity, not even the unswitched stuff like the headlights. absolutely NOTHING.

i rechecked the engine ground (the cable is new and not deteriorated at all) and all connections are tight. i checked and i get a full 13 volts at the solenoid battery terminal. according to the wiring diagram, one of the fusable link wires seems to go to the fuse box, i can't figure out where the other goes.

the questions:
the fusable links at the solenoid do not appear to be burned or deteriorated. how do i check them??

where can i check the fusable link wires after they leave the solenoid (what wire is it at the fuse box?? where does the second fusable link wire go and where can i check it for power?? is there something like a main "breaker" or fuse that might have blown because the new solenoid might have been bad??

i replaced the original (old) solenoid and checked all the connections, but still the same result. obviously something in the "main line" is shorted or blown and prevents any power from getting to the fuse box, etc. even the unswitched stuff is inoperable. what should i check and where is it??

thanks for taking the time to read this and try to lend a hand. i'm very frustrated at this point.

steve
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The 2 fusible links are for (1)headlights, and (2)everything else. You do have the 2 fused links hooked up to the large terminal with the battery cable? Check your battery connections at the battery again. And the ground at the motor that hooks up at the front starter support. Not necessarily loose, just a bad connection. I had a hot start problem with one of mine, thought it was the heat soak problem, but tightened the cable as tight as I could and no more problem. But I did still have everything else, just no hot start.
Can pretty much tell when a fused link goes.

Mike

 

I believe the (2)everything else fuseable link runs to the horn relay on the left fender. Using an ohm meter you should have continuity between the horn relay and the large teminal with the battery connection on it at the starter.

 

Before you get too involved in problem solving, make sure that your battery conections are clean and tight. You'd be amazed how often a corroded side conector does exactly what you've described.

My favorite way to check this is to turn on the headlights (better in the up position) and move the conectors around. If the lights flicker on and off, you've found the problem.

 

Steve...
I chased some of these same problems on my '73 for a while. Then I looked at the ignition switch... (yours may look slightly different)


It's mounted to the top of the steering column about where your feet rest. These things are clamped together and over time can begin to separate. As this happens the problem will get progressively worse until it finally is unable to make any contact internally. It is fastened with a couple of screws to the column that can be loosened to adjust it. It's position in relation to the rod (from the key switch) is critical to power getting to the right components at the right position of the key.

I removed mine, discovered that it was separating, took it apart, cleaned all of the contacts and lubed it, then put it back together. (If you do decide to disassemble it, pay attention to how it comes apart so you can reassemble it correctly.) I reinstalled it, adjusted it correctly and haven't had a problem since. It's a very inexpensive part and most of us overlook it. It's now one of the first things I look at because it's so inexpensive and easy to get to, when I hear of these problems.

Good luck... GUSTO

 

side post batteries stink imho. I carry a 5/16" box wrench in my 79, the side posts seem to vibrate loose, and have used the 5/16 a couple of times when the car seemed totally dead. even used it when a lady drove 20 miles to be in an anniversary corvette parade, came time to line up and her car was totally dead. a half dozen guys poked around on it, and she was ready to leave it and ride with someone else, when I walked up, turned the key, got nothing, got the 5/16 wrench and tightened both side posts almost 1/2 turn!, car fired right up. got a big hug, and she gave me her "prize" later at the picnic. no, not what you're thinking, she had won 4 metal tire valve caps with vette emblems and gave them to me for fixing her car, the caps are still on my car.

 

thanks for the suggestions. i can advise that the battery is fully charges, virtually brand new and the terminals are both clean and as tight as i could comfortably wrench them without stripping them (in my opinion). i would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that even if the ignition starter switch was messed up, there would be power to the non switched items like the headlamps. in my case, there is absolutely NO power to anything at all. the headlights don't go on, the courtesy lights don't go on, etc. previously even when the car wouldn't start and appeared to be "dead", when the ignition key was turned to the on and starter position, the gauges would power up (the volt gauge would spring up to show battery condition (to about 13), even though the starter wouldn't activate. now everything appears to be lacking power.

i would like to find the point where the two fusable link wires go from the battery post of the solenoid. at least that way i could make certain that the fuable links are intact and not burned out. i have been told that sometimes they can blow and yet not appear burned through.

as mentioned , i know that power is being transmitted from the battery to the solenoid as it meters out at over 12 volts constantly at the solenoid battery post. additionally the engine ground is brand new and tests by meter to a good ground contact. all connections are as tight as possible without stripping them. i just don't know what else to check for.

 

..................

 

you know for about $2 you can replace those fusible links.....it would seem to me if they were bad they would have burned up though

 

When did all this happen? Was it right after any maintenance? I would check all of the ground connections, visually & with a meter (batt to frame, frame to motor)

If in doubt, go down to Napa and get a couple of new ground straps.

 

Assuming everything in "what transpired" is chronologically correct, you should be good...did you notice a spark when you re-attached the battery cables? If there was a dead short when re-installing the starter, you might have popped a fusey link....a spark should've been pretty sharp...also, might be wise to bench test the starter with the battery and jumper cables...if the starter has a constant dead short, it'll steal all the power from the rest of the system, although you should be smoking some cables if this is happening...and the obvious question + and - cables are correctly connected at the battery?...I don't think you can mix those up, but gotta ask...it sounds like a ground someplace is loose or bad...have to agree with that, unless you shorted out both the fusey links, but that seems remote to me....will be watching here..

 

Are you absolutely 100% positive that you connected to the proper terminal on the solenoid? Don't ask how I know about this.

Get some long leads and check continuity from the end of the power cable battery side and where it connects to the solenoid.

 

latest update: i tested both of the fusable links and they are both fine. there is power on both sides of the links themselves as tested by meter. i never noticed any kind of a spark what so ever when re-connecting the battery cables after the solenoid change out either time.

there is power at the "hot" post on the solenoid, and then obviously back through the 2 leads with the fusable links, after that, nothing. the entire system including all the non switched accessories like the courtesy and headlights are inoperable as if there was no battery in the car at all.

 

Remember, electricity is really just organized lightning

 

You should have headlites regardless of key on/off, so that would probably dis-count the ignition switch...it sounds like a ground problem more and more...try getting a jumper cable connected from the ground terminal on the battery to the frame and engine, then between the frame and engine and see if things improve..headlights at least..it looks like the neg side isn't connected at all to the entire body/engine...will be watching here...

 

You said you had 12v at the soleniod, did you use the starter for ground with your meter when you took the reading? Each time you check a component use the ground that component uses and use a ground source that you know is good. That way you are checking both power and ground. Assume nothing is good until you check it.

If you don't find a problem between the battery and starter, I would recommend buying a laminated wiring diagram for your car. They are big and hard to read, so I would also get a set of dry erase markers and accually make notes on the diagram. I would then start at your soleniod and work your way through the circuits checking the next component for power before moving on.

I had a hard to find electrical problem this last fall and I bought a very helpful book, Haynes Automotive Electrical Manual. It explained electrical theory and proper testing procedures. Got mine from Amazon.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

 

 

Do two more tests..

1. Measure the voltage at the starter and watch the voltage when you turn on the headlights. It should drop 1-2 volts, no more, no less.

2. Also when turning on the headlights the battery voltage should drop just a little also. It IS possible to have a bad battery that measures good at no load but drops to zero volts under any load at all.

If the starter voltage drops more that 1-2 v, you have a high resistance in your wireing somewhere, check your cabeling again, and don't forget the neg where it attaches to the frame.

if the starter voltage drops less, like nothing, there is no connection from the battery to the electrical system, either a wire is not connected or it is internally broken.

I believe what you were seeing before has just gotten worse to the point of not working at all, whereas before it would sometimes work if the wireing had happened to be in the right place, but moving the wireing during the starter install made it worse.

One more thing is to use a 12v test light to measure voltage, it requires that there actually is some current in the circuit, where a good multimeter has 10-20 million ohms of input resistance, it requires only a trace of burnt insulation sometimes to read voltage, very misleading.

 

either the junction box, next to the battery is corroded/faulty, or you have a bad switch.

I`m betting on the switch.

but you had a problem before replacing the starter electrics---think about it.

 

Also, recheck the starter install and all around the area, and make sure that you didn't forget to attach any ground cables to the starter...if you have power to the starter, and the engine has a return ground to the battery, you should be able to use a screwdriver and kick the starter over...if you can't, there is no ground to the engine, or to any other parts either, apparently, for that matter....this problem seemed to start after the starter install....something is loose or not connected...