Jim, anyone, I have a wonder if ATF is not actually bad to use in power steering systems, been using it on and off for years, and have noticed what I THINK is promotion of leaking wonder if it's due to the ATF having something in it that attacks the seals in typical power steering systems...

or is it a combination of stuff, mainly olde cawr itis....

GENE

 

Very long term it is bad...why?...because it hardens rubber and plastic. Thats why Ford quit using it in their trannys and sent a TSB out stating not to use it in the Ford Taurus R&P system when the Taurus was a "new car on the Market"

will it work?
yes

Does p/s fluid labeled "p/s fluid" have different properties as ATF?
some do, but not all.

The cure?
Buy the p/s fluid with "seal conditioners"...now; there is two types...one is a "p/s leak stop" type...the other is just plain ole p/s fluid with seal conditioners.

You might spend a dollar or two more a bottle, but worth it in the long run.
ATF can be used at any time.

Oh...biggest difference between ATF and DexII is the detergents.


Jim(the other one)

 

I have used Lucas power steering fluid in a couple of cars with leaks and bearing noise. It was recommended by a friend that tried it.
I could not believe that it would work, well I had nothing to loose but a few $$, , to my amassment it took away the noise and stopped the leak's.
In the owners manual its recommended to change the PS fluid but no one ever does.
The stuff is very thick, so I would put it by a heater to thin it out when pouring it in.
This is one additive that does work.

 

Lucas works very well too at stopping leaks/noise....

 

All of the lip seal materials, hose materials, o-ring materials, etc that are in the General Motors power steering system are subjected to long term oil aging testing. The fluid that is used in testing is GM power steering fluid. All materials used in the GM system have to pass these tests.

All of the power steering hose assembly durability tests, power steering pump durability tests, and power steering gear durability tests are conducted with ----- you guessed it---------------- GM power steering fluid.

Why GM power steering fluid? Because it is the only fluid that Saginaw can keep its arms around. In other words, there is no way that Saginaw can control or keep the fluid from changing with other brands of "power steering fluid."

That isn't to say that other brands of power steering fluid are no good. The only question is which other ones are good or bad?

Most of the "stop leak" fluids have a swelling agent. The agent actually attacks the rubber causing it to swell. In many cases it actually does stop a leak. However, that is a short term approach because the fluid is really degrading the rubber elastomer with the swelling.

Jim

 

Jim Shea, the question is....does ATF typically degrade the power steering rubber?? has anyone ever done an scientific ****-ysis of this....

maybe I need flush the entire world and start over....I added ATF some months ago when the system need a top off, and now, I'm not so sure what in hell I"m looking at, the car has been driven, but not petted over for the last year or better, and so I see something suspicious....yet again....

GENE

 

Gene,
Be careful mixing fluids because you can never flush the system entirely. There will always be chemicals left behind and adding a new fluid just creates some unknown chemical cocktail. Where Jim worked on the GM side, I work on the side providing the seals. Mixing fluids is one of the things we cringe about because you never know what you will end up with. Will it crumble in fall in front or you...no. However, it could very well make the leak worse and ultimately severely reduce the life of the part.

Ken

 

OH Christ, better living through freaking CHEMISTRY allready...

so what to do NOW?? guess I will leave it alone, it's mixed allready...


GENE

 

It could also solve the problem, and you end up inventing some miracle leak stop. It's kind of a crap shoot, which is why the PhD guys hate the idea so much. I would just continue to run clean fluid if the leak isn't that bad. If you can't handle the leak, try adding something. If it works, you're ahead, and it it doesn't you replace the seals and then pick a fluid and go with it.

Ken

 

Better Living Through Chemistry.....

Which is why I call all modern compounds....


POLY CAN'T PRONOUNCE IT!!!!.....


damn sure not THIS parrot....


GENE

 

ATF fluid has changed many times since the middle 60s when GM started using the Dexron brand of additives. It started as ATF type A, suffix A; then Dexron, then Dexron II, Dexron III, and other designations.

The elastomers that Saginaw uses in all of their steering seals and hoses are pretty darn good. I doubt that any of them would just shrivel up and fail just because ATF was added to the system.

A big concern (as much as seal compatibility) is probably ring and bushing wear inside the power steering pump. I do remember many years ago, that Saginaw engineering noticed more ring wear on power steering pumps that came off durability testing. They determined through exhaustive design of experiments testing that the level of zinc in the power steering fluid had changed by a small amount -- but just enough to be noticed on long term durability tests. This was the same fluid that was shipped by the thousands of gallons to the assembly plants for factory fill. Saginaw then placed tighter specifications on the level of zinc in their fluid.

A while back, a member on another forum was complaining about morning sickness with his muscle car. On cold mornings, he had to drive several miles before he could feel power assist. We think that it was the result of his introducing some amount of "stop leak" into his steering fluid just before winter set in. It was suggested that he try flushing his system and refill with GM power steering fluid. As is typical, so far he hasn't reported back.

Jim

 

Hey Gene,
Thats one thing about power rack and pinion gears. They just fill their boots with oil if there is a gear leak. Nothing on the garage floor, just bulging boot seals. Of course there is a limit as to how much they will hold. Some people just keep adding and adding fluid oblivious as to the fact that it has to be going someplace.

Jim

 

I guess that makes sense....so to speak...actually it makes dollars...

are those racks in FACT rebuildable at home, or am I just wishing...

over the years I rather DIY than trust any other mechanic with damn few exceptions to mess it up for me....

maybe just cheaper to exchange it....

lotta damn fluid to get outta there...maybe a gallon or more considering the hydroboost...another thread...

GENE

 

Keep in mind that Dexron III is a specification was well as a fluid designation. The factory Dexron III is not synthetic, but there are several synthetic ATFs on the market that meet GM Dexron III standards such as AMSOIL ATF. Making this even more confusing, there are several different types of basestock that are allowed to carry the designation "synthetic" including group III, a highly processed petroleum oil (most synthetics on the market), group IV PAO based synthetics (such as Mobil 1 and most AMSOIL products), and group V, ester based synthetics (such as Redline). How each of these ATF's perform as a power steering fluid is probably different.

 

Gene,
Check out ebay. I got my rack for $25 plus about $18 for shipping. It was freshly remanufactured, both by the looks of the unit and the paperwork that came with it. The user I bought it from is importedthad100, but he currently doesn't have one for sale. I'm sure you can find one though. I thought that price for a fresh unit was great, especially since the parts store charge $85 plus a core.

Ken