Air/Fuel Gauge
Thread Starter
"Rodstoration &am p;quot; In Progres
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 1
From: Frisco TX
Air/Fuel Gauge
Anyone install an Air/Fuel Gauge in their C3? If so, what brand and any pictures of the install would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ed
Thanks,
Ed
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,063
Likes: 1
From: Beverly Massachusetts
i havent done one personally but i would like to recomend that if you do get it done to get an old O2 sensor to use in its place when not using it to tune so that it lasts longer.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh PA
Check out the Innovate wide-band O2 sensors. The narrow-band (cheap) ones are useless at anything except an AFR of ~14.7:1.
The good sensors are fairly pricey, as you can see HERE, but you get what you pay for....
The good sensors are fairly pricey, as you can see HERE, but you get what you pay for....
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 121
From: Sulphur LA
St. Jude Donor '05-'06,'11,'13-'14,'16,'18,'19,'24, '25
I have built 7 or 8 of them using instructions from the net. They do use the narrow band O2 sensors and they have worked great. I had two meters installed in my car one for each bank and used them to tune my Q-jet before I pulled the motor. They are a very valuable tool for tuning a carb. The narrow and wide band O2 sensor debate is always interesting on the forum. There are a few members using the narrow band meters and have had very good luck with them.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh PA
Originally Posted by chevymans 77
I have built 7 or 8 of them using instructions from the net. They do use the narrow band O2 sensors and they have worked great. I had two meters installed in my car one for each bank and used them to tune my Q-jet before I pulled the motor. They are a very valuable tool for tuning a carb. The narrow and wide band O2 sensor debate is always interesting on the forum. There are a few members using the narrow band meters and have had very good luck with them.
The Wide Band Advantage
With a narrow band sensor, we can really only tell for certain whether we are rich or lean, but not by how much. If you look at the graph, you can see that for a narrow band sensor, the 12.5:1 AFR required for maximum power can give O2 voltage from 0.8 to 0.95 (depending on exhaust gas temperature), yet this same range of O2 voltages can indicate mixtures from 10:1 to 14.5:1. So we cannot use it reliably to set mixtures for full power. With a wide-band sensor, 12.5:1 corresponds to 2.08 volts, and 2.08 volts means 12.5:1. Thus there is no ambiguity over AFR and voltages. We can measure any mixture in the range we are likely to use, from full power through to maximum economy....
With a narrow band sensor, we can really only tell for certain whether we are rich or lean, but not by how much. If you look at the graph, you can see that for a narrow band sensor, the 12.5:1 AFR required for maximum power can give O2 voltage from 0.8 to 0.95 (depending on exhaust gas temperature), yet this same range of O2 voltages can indicate mixtures from 10:1 to 14.5:1. So we cannot use it reliably to set mixtures for full power. With a wide-band sensor, 12.5:1 corresponds to 2.08 volts, and 2.08 volts means 12.5:1. Thus there is no ambiguity over AFR and voltages. We can measure any mixture in the range we are likely to use, from full power through to maximum economy....
Narrow-band O2 sensors are useful only when tuning for maximum fuel mileage. If you're tuning for performance, then it's wasted money.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
I have a AEM Uego Wideband gauge in my '68.. The install is very simple... The oxygen sensor connects with the harness that goes to the gauge and one of the wires has to be connected to +12 Volts (ignition). There's also one output wire (RS232) that can be hooked up to the serial port of a laptop etc..
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by comp
I run the Edelbrock one with a bung welded in the exhuast right behind the collector. It is the 4 wire one and I just use to for cruising economy and jet to run about 15 -1.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
Widebands are getting more common from the factory as prices drop. VW, Audi, Cadillac and Honda are just some examples that use Widebands on some engines. The difference is that with a wideband the computer can stay closed loop at full throttle and they can also do lean-burn (up into the 20:1 range).
Don't think you can tune full throttle with a NB and voltmeter!
Don't think you can tune full throttle with a NB and voltmeter!
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 54,204
Likes: 180
From: S.W. Ohio. . . . . . NRA Life Member
the problem with using narrowband sensors is their non-linear response below 13.5:1 and above 16:1.
Outside their intended range - no two are alike. So each AFR setup using NB sensors would each need custom calibration - or they could never be trusted.
I also have the Innovate WB system, and have used it to tune my 2002. I plan on using it on the wifes 1973 L82 someday; though her Vette runs so well that I doubt I would ever try to change anything.
Also keep in mind that AFR tuning is not recommended fror engines having radical cams (mainly... cams that have a lot of "overlap"). You'll get inaccurate readings and shorten the life of the WB sensor.
Outside their intended range - no two are alike. So each AFR setup using NB sensors would each need custom calibration - or they could never be trusted.
I also have the Innovate WB system, and have used it to tune my 2002. I plan on using it on the wifes 1973 L82 someday; though her Vette runs so well that I doubt I would ever try to change anything.
Also keep in mind that AFR tuning is not recommended fror engines having radical cams (mainly... cams that have a lot of "overlap"). You'll get inaccurate readings and shorten the life of the WB sensor.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 303
Likes: 2
From: southeast Idaho
I have an innovate motorsports LM-1 and I really like it. besides lbeing able to read it in real time it also has the ability to log 45 minutes or so of driving and you can hook it up to your computer and download the log and play it back. Plus you can buy a few addons and log up to 6 different things such as throttle position, rpm, boost, ect. Its not a built in guage but rather a handheld meter and its not cheap but I figgured for my turbo setup it was cheaper than wiping out a new motor.
Mike
Mike
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 121
From: Sulphur LA
St. Jude Donor '05-'06,'11,'13-'14,'16,'18,'19,'24, '25
I will stick to my original post. I have first hand experience with the NB O2 sensor and meter. No sales pitch off of a web site.
Neal
Neal
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
Originally Posted by chevymans 77
I will stick to my original post. I have first hand experience with the NB O2 sensor and meter. No sales pitch off of a web site.
Neal
Neal
Race Director
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 10,643
Likes: 8
From: Foxfield CO 1970 Convertible
Like many others, I'm running the LM-1. It seems to be an excellent system. Of course, the second I purchased one, they came out with a smaller version which takes less space and does about the same thing... 
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 121
From: Sulphur LA
St. Jude Donor '05-'06,'11,'13-'14,'16,'18,'19,'24, '25
Narrow band O2 sensors need to be above 575deg to read accurately, no problem as long as it is located within 3’ of the head. If this is not possible to locate it near the head than a heated narrow band sensor can be used, it will generate its own heat and will achieve over 1200 degrees within 35 seconds, the heater will stay on as long as power is sent to the sensor (while the engine is running). The O2 sensor is calibrated by the manufacture and is accurate as long as it is above 575deg. I used three different O2 sensors and they all read very close to the same. I am not saying that the NB is as capable as the WB at showing mixtures at the extremes but it is very capable of showing mixtures when they are near 14.7 to 1. They are very capable of being used to tune an engine in real time (while driving). I have done it and it is a very valuable tool.
Neal
Neal
Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh PA
Originally Posted by chevymans 77
I will stick to my original post. I have first hand experience with the NB O2 sensor and meter. No sales pitch off of a web site.
Neal
Neal
Originally Posted by chevymans 77
I have built 7 or 8 of them using instructions from the net.
Oh, and BTW.... if people are tuning a daily driver for maximum mileage, than the NB sensor has some usefulness, though not a lot... Max power is at an AFR of 12.5:1, exactly where a NB sensor is completely worthless...
I stand by MY statement. Do you still stand by YOURS???
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,921
Likes: 2
From: York PA
I have an autometer phantom A/F guage hooked up in mine. With a narrow band O2 sensor it is good only for setting up cruise/idle A/F ratio. I just installed an Innovate LC-1 wideband setup and I have this hooked up to both the Autometer gauge and my accel system. It works alot better for tuning. If you are going to get an innovate O2 setup for standalone use I would also buy their gauge. My Autometer gauge is designed for use with a narrow band sensor. With the LC-1 you can customize the output, but then the colors on the gauge would lose there meaning. 