I'm replacing the rag joint on my 73, I have the steering box/ coupler separated and the bolts out. I know I have to remove the 12 point bolt to remove the joint, my question is how does those pins come off to replace the rag part
Thanks

 

I tried to rebuild mine this past winter and gave up, the rebuild kit I got was total junk. With any luck you'll be able to avoid wasting the $15 like I did. A new rag joint is something like $45, I suggest you go that route. My $0.02

Here's a link that may help http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...ight=rag+joint

 

Thanks for the link, It's just what I was thinking while I was wondering how to remove the pins..... "don't play Mr. Jerk Around" and waste time trying to separate and replace the rag part, just buy a new joint and install it....Lord knows I've played "Mr. Jerk Around" too many times with stuff...

 

You can go to the Chevy dealer and get them brand new. I wasted my money on the rebuild kit and still bought the GM part and installed it. I wish someone would have told me not to buy the rag joint rebuild kit first.

 

I rebuilt mine using the kit from the "Help!" aisle at the parts store. Works fine. I'd be happy to answer any specific questions...the biggest thing is that I had to grind a bit off of two of the bolts for clearance.

 

Complete new joint isthe way to go.

 

I also used the universal one from the HELP section. Works great.

 

 

vettfixr, does that connection send any unwanted feedback that might otherwise get damped by the rag joint?

 

How can you tell if that joint is shot? Just too much play?
ESU

 

Not at all. The only difference I've noticed between this unit and 3 previous rag joints is that when I move the steering wheel the wheels move also without hesitation. I have no vibration, binding, or road feel issues at all.

 

This is the reason why General Motors vehicles do not directly couple the steering column to the steering gear by means of a single universal joint (such as shown above.)

The flexible coupling serves a couple purposes.
One, because you are steering through a laminated rubber disc, there is a degree of isolation from steering system and engine compartment noise.

Two, the rubber disc also provides tactile vibration isolation from harsh tire and road feedback.

Third, the flexible coupling is used to accommodate the small design angle of the steering column meeting the steering gear input shaft.

Fourth, it can take up a minor amount of misalignment of the steering column shaft to the steering gear input shaft. This misalignment can be from the steering column installation; movement of the body relative to the frame under driving conditions, settling of the body relative to the frame over time and miles.

Fifth, it can take up a minor amount of axial displacement between the steering column and the steering gear input shaft. This axial displacement can be from the same conditions as the number four.

Sixth, provide an electrical grounding path from the steering column shaft to the steering gear (and frame) for the horn ground.

The first two reasons probably are not a great concern for a Corvette owner (i.e. engine noise and road feel).

As I remember the actual design angle between the steering column shaft and the steering gear input shaft is about 1 or 2 degrees. The flexible coupling was designed for 5 degrees. Universal joints easily take up 10 degrees or more of angle.

Being able to accept a minor amount of misalignment and/or axial displacement is important. The AIM sheets and the Chevrolet shop manual have a very specific installation and assembly method called out to align the column to the gear. They called it a Mandatory Assembly Sequence. (The OEM type flexible coupling assembly has orange plastic alignment spacers to assist in the procedure. The spacers are discarded after every thing is assembled and checked.) After completing the column installation, you can inspect the flexible coupling and note if the stop pins are central in the steering column flange slots to determine proper alignment. Also there is a "flatness" called out in the installation sheets for the flexible coupling disc and stop pins to determine axial alignment.

A single universal joint has no provisions to take up any misalignment or axial displacement. If the steering column and the gear are not closely aligned, a very large side load can be placed on the column lower steering shaft bearing. (Note, on steering systems with more than one universal joint, there are no alignment concerns.)

On vehicles with energy absorbing steering columns, (1967 and later) axial location is probably not of extreme importance.

Overall, we were most concerned about long term durability of the steering column lower bearing from side loading.

JIML82

 

I used the rebuild kit and that’s what I am running now. I helped Steve's74 replace his last weekend with the preassembled unit and I am going to get one and install it soon. I liked the way it was manufactured except for the orientation was 180 degrees out. We had to drill the small hole out to accept the large bolt. No big deal because the unit came with a spacer to reduce the hole size for the smaller bolt. We just moved the spacer and it worked great.

 

Jim, I believe that you believe everything you have written. I also believe, having owned my car now for 20+ years, that some of the engineering on these cars was more a matter of cost effectiveness, parts sharing and convenience than high performance. Its quite possible that if a rag joint car and universal joint car were driven for 200 or 300 thousand miles there would be a small difference in steering box or steering column failure (maybe). But in todays real world of collector cars these vehicles rarely see any significant mileage and, from the posts on this forum, much of what we do to our cars is in the form of raising the performance bar. I'm sure there would be countless engineering reasons why monoleaf front springs, crossover pipes, side exhausts, engine changes, shock selection, etc. could be argued against for use in our cars (C3s). The simple fact is these cars are our toys and if we can get a little better performance out of them we happily put up with the negatives. I've had the universal joint on my car for quite a while now and have seen no negative impact to performance or longevity (given my driving habits) to date. I have however lived with rag joints for quite a few years and was consistently annoyed/dismayed by their vague feeling and wear issues. I'm sure the life expectancy of a rag joint that sits a few inches away from a hot header pipe was not considered when testing the prototype. I'm also sure that if universal joints were inferior to rag joints the majority of cars built today would not have them, which is not the case. In closing I recommend everyone to do what you think is best. In my case installing a part which works and which most likely will not have to be replaced for the remainder of my life was the right decision. Peace.

 

One other factor that was taken very seriously in the design of the steering system was being able to verify that the parts were assembled correctly. With the flexible coupling, you can check the centrality of the stop pins to assure that things are aligned. With a single universal joint, it is not possible to verify that there is no side loading on the lower column bearing.

If you attach the column to the flex coupling and then attach the steering column toe plate to the floor pan - and then crank the steering wheel end of the steering column up into the dash - you can create a hellishly high load on the lower column bearing.

General Motors had a massive recall of millions of steering shafts when it started production with energy absorbing steering columns in 1967. The problem was misalignment of the steering column shaft to the steering gear. There is nothing like spending millions of dollars on a recall to make a company VERY sensitive to assembly operations and procedures.

BTW, the 7 ply laminated flexible coupling disc that is used on the C3 Corvette is quite rigid and stiff. So it does transmit quite a bit of road feel up through the flexible coupling.

I was competitive steering system analysis manager during the late 1990s at Saginaw Steering. I was VERY familiar with steering systems in use throughout the world (cars, trucks, etc). I do not ever recall seeing a steering gear directly connected to a steering column by means of a single universal joint.

Jim

 

I have a single universal on my '68, the header was killing the rag joint. I think most circle-track cars are running a single joint. Point is well taken on the lower bearing load, Jim.

 

Here is one last comment as to why I don't recommend the flexible coupling rebuilding kits.

http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/wp-co...buildKits2.doc

Jim

 

ummmmm don't know what to upgrade with now....have hooker super comp headers and don't want to fry the rag joint but don't want to blow the lower bearing on the flaming river set-up.

 

I had no choice but to use a u-joint. Super Comp header tube was 1/8 inch away, would jam into the coupler on hard acceleration and lock the steering.

 

I still stand by the idea that a well-designed rebuild kit is fine. It doesn't take a great degree of mechanical acumen to figure out how everything goes together.

I'll take a picture of mine tonight.