What are the problems with the C3 steering setup?
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What are the problems with the early C3 steering setup?
I have a fully restored vette, and the steering leaves alot to be desired. Specifically, at high speeds, the car feels very 'darty' or 'nervous' for a lack of better terms. What causes this? Is it a lack of positive caster? The entire steering set up itself? High front end lift? What can be done to correct this situation? Switch to a rack and pinion set up like Steeroids? How exactly does that 'bump steer kit' from VB&P work anyways? What does it do,and where does it bolt onto? Sorry for all the questins, but I want to fix this to a tolerable level. My DD Cavalier handles better at high speeds!
Last edited by 7t2vette; Apr 27, 2006 at 08:04 PM.
Le Mans Master
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From: Austin TX
Replace rag joint, idler arm, tie rod ends. Replace or rebuild steering box. Increase caster. You can decrease the steering quickness by connecting the tie rod end links to the inner hole at the front wheels.
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Originally Posted by flynhi
Replace rag joint, idler arm, tie rod ends. Replace or rebuild steering box. Increase caster. You can decrease the steering quickness by connecting the tie rod end links to the inner hole at the front wheels.
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Originally Posted by davidm_comp
I had the same problem, I decided to switch to the steeroids package, and also swapped front tires from 255/60/15 to 225/70/15. Car handles very nice now, better than I expected.
Le Mans Master
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From: Sewell NJ
I'm not sure you are ever going to get the feeling that you get with a new car unless you go to the rack and pinion setup. I have the same setup as you and the real problem is that power steering back then was really power. My car had heavy steering when I had a bad power steering pump and it felt good at high speed. Then I fixed tha damn thing with an AGR pump and I can probably drive with my little finger now at speeds over 50. I do find that the VB&P setup makes for quick response which, depending on how light the steering already is, makes for a darty feeling. I'm thinking of having a little more toe added as per VB&P instructions to help the matter. But I don't think it will ever drive like my 350Z. Maybe that's not so bad though. Part of the fun of these old cars is seeing what it felt like to drive back in the day.
My car had heavy steering when I had a bad power steering pump and it felt good at high speed. Then I fixed tha damn thing with an AGR pump and I can probably drive with my little finger now at speeds over 50. I do find that the VB&P setup makes for quick response which, depending on how light the steering already is, makes for a darty feeling. I'm thinking of having a little more toe added as per VB&P instructions to help the matter. But I don't think it will ever drive like my 350Z. Maybe that's not so bad though. Part of the fun of these old cars is seeing what it felt like to drive back in the day.
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Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Why don't you try and play with some different caster, camber and toe settings first to see if you can settle it down. You may be worse off with a power rack or jeep box if they provide too much assist. There have been many complaints here about the racks. Its a crapshoot on what valving you get in these racks.
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Originally Posted by turtlevette
Why don't you try and play with some different caster, camber and toe settings first to see if you can settle it down. You may be worse off with a power rack or jeep box if they provide too much assist. There have been many complaints here about the racks. Its a crapshoot on what valving you get in these racks.
Next I am going to adjust the tie rods one turn in for a little more toe.
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From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Mine is really stable at high speed, I love it, nothing to worry about, I could take a nap it's that relaxing.
Maybe your front end is lifting, I remember my CUda was an experience to drive at high speed, it had standard steering which felt like power steering at high speeds which meant the front was lifting
Maybe your front end is lifting, I remember my CUda was an experience to drive at high speed, it had standard steering which felt like power steering at high speeds which meant the front was lifting
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Originally Posted by MotorHead
Mine is really stable at high speed, I love it, nothing to worry about, I could take a nap it's that relaxing.
Maybe your front end is lifting, I remember my CUda was an experience to drive at high speed, it had standard steering which felt like power steering at high speeds which meant the front was lifting
Maybe your front end is lifting, I remember my CUda was an experience to drive at high speed, it had standard steering which felt like power steering at high speeds which meant the front was lifting
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St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by 7t2vette
Thats what I am going to start with. I just installed these VB&P upper arms, the pic shows how VB&P achieved the additional positive castor by moving the ball joint towards the rear of the car; these are the drivers side arms:
Next I am going to adjust the tie rods one turn in for a little more toe.
Next I am going to adjust the tie rods one turn in for a little more toe.
Melting Slicks
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From: Union Ontario
I have steeroids rack and pinion on my car and it handles well. I have increased effort to steer, which I wanted, as I could previously turn the car without any effort. I have found it to be stable until 80-90MPH but I also haven't spent much time doing an alignment.
AS for problems with your existing system, there are multiple points of slop in the system, rag joint, steering box,control valve and tierods and balljoints. Even though everything may be new or rebuilt, there may be enough combined slop to create the vague feeling you experience at speed.
AS for problems with your existing system, there are multiple points of slop in the system, rag joint, steering box,control valve and tierods and balljoints. Even though everything may be new or rebuilt, there may be enough combined slop to create the vague feeling you experience at speed.
Last edited by MikeC; Apr 27, 2006 at 07:16 PM.
Race Director
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Originally Posted by MotorHead
Mine is really stable at high speed, I love it, nothing to worry about, I could take a nap it's that relaxing.
This subject has been gone over again and again.
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Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
Same here. At 200 kmph mine is a simple one finger touch.
This subject has been gone over again and again.
This subject has been gone over again and again.
Last edited by 7t2vette; Apr 27, 2006 at 07:27 PM.
Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MikeC
I have steeroids rack and pinion on my car and it handles well. I have increased effort to steer, which I wanted, as I could previously turn the car without any effort. I have found it to be stable until 80-90MPH but I also haven't spent much time doing an alignment.
AS for problems with your existing system, there are multiple points of slop in the system, rag joint, steering box,control valve and tierods and balljoints. Even though everything may be new or rebuilt, there may be enough combined slop to create the vague feeling you experience at speed.
AS for problems with your existing system, there are multiple points of slop in the system, rag joint, steering box,control valve and tierods and balljoints. Even though everything may be new or rebuilt, there may be enough combined slop to create the vague feeling you experience at speed.
Last edited by 7t2vette; Apr 27, 2006 at 08:04 PM.
Thread Starter
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I just did a search, and found this thread about increasing high speed stability with a bigger front spoiler:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1555062820
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1555062820
Thread Starter
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Wow, look at differences in the size and shape of the frontal areas between early and late C3's. My car is lowered, and look at how much space there is between the ground and my front spoiler compared to yours:
Instructor
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From: Pittsburgh PA
Did you follow the guidelines from VB&P that they list here? As they say here at the bottom of the table.
Advanced Street - These specs are designed to give an even quicker steering response with minimum tire wear. If the car is "darty", toe the car in. By toeing in, you may loose some turn-in qualities gained by the initial specs.
http://www.vbandp.com/instructions/h...ruct/align.htm
Advanced Street - These specs are designed to give an even quicker steering response with minimum tire wear. If the car is "darty", toe the car in. By toeing in, you may loose some turn-in qualities gained by the initial specs.
http://www.vbandp.com/instructions/h...ruct/align.htm