Solid vs. hyd
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 121
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Originally Posted by Ironcross
For an accurate indication of whether I know what roller junk can be, is to check my web site at http://nitroalley.net I was given all of the camshafts used in my race cars from several prominate West Coast grinders. In both supercharged nitro and gas engines. All were their special grinds that were really not offered to the general public {both roller and flat tappet}. These engines were constantly 8000 rpms +. I went just as fast with one or the other. The difference was that the roller cam equiped engines were much more prone to have lifter problems. They do come apart. A word on a hydraulic roller engine is that it will never reach extreme rpms and the automotive factories know this. But since we are all probably Vette people just refleck on GM`s high HP engines, ZL1, L88, and the over the counter service package 454 LS7 of which you would have to agree, are at least 550 HP right out of the box. All of them solid lifter engines and no roller camshafts in any of them. A step further in to the Chrysler line, only the A990 426 Race Hemi that most Chrysler people will say actually produced more like 600HP were only solid lifter engines from the factory. All the rest, 426 Street Hemi`s, available first in 1966 were only hydraulic cam engines. However, do as you want. Personally I enjoy my solid lifter street engines and i`m not afraid to drive them anywhere because I know I will always be able to make it home in one piece. And they all idle at 8-850 whether coupled to a 4 speed or a automatic 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
A solid flat tappit cam in a small block will need 350 pounds open
vavle spring preasure a big block with big valves will need a little
more. A modern solid street roller say crane cams most radical
small block cam has a pulling range of 3800 to 7500. the vavle spring they recomend only has 400 pounds open valve. cranes smallest
racing cam has a pulling range of 4500 to 8000. the price you pay
for the racing cam is you have to have 600 pound open pressure.
The racing cam has very steep ramps copared to the sreet cam and a little more time holding the vavle open and it has to shut the valve
very quick and with 600 pound pressure much harder then the 400
pound presure on the street cam. My piont is all these old racing
cams with very stiff vavle springs and the old roller lifters that had
no preasure oiling to the axles have really given a bad taste in
peoples mouth. A modern hyd roller will last a lot of miles they have
a lot of oil getting to the axle needle bearing. Cranes solid street
roller cams have a cast iron dist. gear you don't have to buy a
melonized dist gear that costs way to much. Hyd. roller, hyd roller, street motor less then 6500= hyd roller.
vavle spring preasure a big block with big valves will need a little
more. A modern solid street roller say crane cams most radical
small block cam has a pulling range of 3800 to 7500. the vavle spring they recomend only has 400 pounds open valve. cranes smallest
racing cam has a pulling range of 4500 to 8000. the price you pay
for the racing cam is you have to have 600 pound open pressure.
The racing cam has very steep ramps copared to the sreet cam and a little more time holding the vavle open and it has to shut the valve
very quick and with 600 pound pressure much harder then the 400
pound presure on the street cam. My piont is all these old racing
cams with very stiff vavle springs and the old roller lifters that had
no preasure oiling to the axles have really given a bad taste in
peoples mouth. A modern hyd roller will last a lot of miles they have
a lot of oil getting to the axle needle bearing. Cranes solid street
roller cams have a cast iron dist. gear you don't have to buy a
melonized dist gear that costs way to much. Hyd. roller, hyd roller, street motor less then 6500= hyd roller.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 121
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Originally Posted by Little Mouse
A solid flat tappit cam in a small block will need 350 pounds open
vavle spring preasure a big block with big valves will need a little
more. A modern solid street roller say crane cams most radical
small block cam has a pulling range of 3800 to 7500. the vavle spring they recomend only has 400 pounds open valve. cranes smallest
racing cam has a pulling range of 4500 to 8000. the price you pay
for the racing cam is you have to have 600 pound open pressure.
The racing cam has very steep ramps copared to the sreet cam and a little more time holding the vavle open and it has to shut the valve
very quick and with 600 pound pressure much harder then the 400
pound presure on the street cam. My piont is all these old racing
cams with very stiff vavle springs and the old roller lifters that had
no preasure oiling to the axles have really given a bad taste in
peoples mouth. A modern hyd roller will last a lot of miles they have
a lot of oil getting to the axle needle bearing. Cranes solid street
roller cams have a cast iron dist. gear you don't have to buy a
melonized dist gear that costs way to much. Hyd. roller, hyd roller, street motor less then 6500= hyd roller.
vavle spring preasure a big block with big valves will need a little
more. A modern solid street roller say crane cams most radical
small block cam has a pulling range of 3800 to 7500. the vavle spring they recomend only has 400 pounds open valve. cranes smallest
racing cam has a pulling range of 4500 to 8000. the price you pay
for the racing cam is you have to have 600 pound open pressure.
The racing cam has very steep ramps copared to the sreet cam and a little more time holding the vavle open and it has to shut the valve
very quick and with 600 pound pressure much harder then the 400
pound presure on the street cam. My piont is all these old racing
cams with very stiff vavle springs and the old roller lifters that had
no preasure oiling to the axles have really given a bad taste in
peoples mouth. A modern hyd roller will last a lot of miles they have
a lot of oil getting to the axle needle bearing. Cranes solid street
roller cams have a cast iron dist. gear you don't have to buy a
melonized dist gear that costs way to much. Hyd. roller, hyd roller, street motor less then 6500= hyd roller.
Street motor under 6500 rpm = Hydraulic roller. ARP Hydra Rev will help a lot in the upper rpm range. Helps keep the heavier hydraulic roller on the cam with fast ramp rates and doesn't add spring pressure to the lifter plunger. Helps with valve float which is the one disadvantage to the hydraulic roller. You can't put the extra spring pressure you need for high RPM's with fast ramp rates on the hydraulic lifter plunger or collapsed lifters are a possibility. 
Last edited by 63mako; May 2, 2006 at 02:48 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
A solid flat tappit for a small block will need 350 pounds open valve
spring pressure a big blocks bigger valves will need a little more.
Crane recomends a 400 pound open pressure for there most radical
solid street roller 3800 to 7500 rpm. Cranes smallest race roller has
a pulling range of 4500 to 8000 rpm,the price you pay for the race
cam is 600 pounds open pressure. It holds the valve open a little
longer and has to shut the valves at a fast rate and with 600
pounds spring pressure it slames the valve much harder then the
400 pound pressure modern solid street roller. My point is all the
old race cams that people use to try on the street with high spring
pressures and no oil pressure to the axle and needles have really
given people a bad taste in there mouth for solid rollers and the
old brass dist gear that you had to run stunk. Cranes solid street
roller uses a cast iron dist. gear you don't have to buy a high dollar
melonized dist gear. A street engine under 6500 rpm, hyd. rollers is
a set and forget deal for a long time, a little heavy on the wallet.
spring pressure a big blocks bigger valves will need a little more.
Crane recomends a 400 pound open pressure for there most radical
solid street roller 3800 to 7500 rpm. Cranes smallest race roller has
a pulling range of 4500 to 8000 rpm,the price you pay for the race
cam is 600 pounds open pressure. It holds the valve open a little
longer and has to shut the valves at a fast rate and with 600
pounds spring pressure it slames the valve much harder then the
400 pound pressure modern solid street roller. My point is all the
old race cams that people use to try on the street with high spring
pressures and no oil pressure to the axle and needles have really
given people a bad taste in there mouth for solid rollers and the
old brass dist gear that you had to run stunk. Cranes solid street
roller uses a cast iron dist. gear you don't have to buy a high dollar
melonized dist gear. A street engine under 6500 rpm, hyd. rollers is
a set and forget deal for a long time, a little heavy on the wallet.
Advanced
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 68
Likes: 4
go solid flat tappet
What are you going to do? Are you driving it alot, do you want it to be reliable? Problems with aftermarket roller lifters (and roller rockers) are well documented in all the magazines. They are not factory parts and just are not built for longevity. Solid rollers are for race motors.
I like the instant response a solid flat tappet provides. I've done it, same motor, same lift, hyd vs flat. Acts like a different motor. The roller thing can be argued from here til eternity. For cost and reliability, I'll take the flat tappet solid. This is all based on the fact that you don't mind the adjustments.
dinosaur Dan
I like the instant response a solid flat tappet provides. I've done it, same motor, same lift, hyd vs flat. Acts like a different motor. The roller thing can be argued from here til eternity. For cost and reliability, I'll take the flat tappet solid. This is all based on the fact that you don't mind the adjustments.
dinosaur Dan
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Iron Cross if you will think back All 66 to 69 street hemis had a
very mild solid. 1970 they changed over to an even weaker hyd.
all the street hemis were not much whitout a lot of tuning and
modding, they were a bear when modified.
very mild solid. 1970 they changed over to an even weaker hyd.
all the street hemis were not much whitout a lot of tuning and
modding, they were a bear when modified.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 894
Likes: 91
Solid Lifters and Mech. Roller Lifters
I want to take a minute and touch on 2 issues here.
We just finished a few weeks of testing Comp Cam's new 883-16 solid roller lifters. They have the pressure-fed pin oiling down to the wheels and axles the same as Isky's "Red-Zones" and Crower's "Hippo's". We've had no issues whatsoever with the lifter's or the oil pressure. We used a std. M-77 pump with the Melling hi-pressure "purple" spring, #M77020 installed, these was BB's we were doing. They will be excellent lifters for extended street use.
The other issue is the new flat-tappet "solids" from "Ferrea Racing". Weighing in at only 59 grams, they're 30 grams lighter than the original "Johnson's" AND have the EDM hole at the bottom to help cam break-in and to extend lobe life. They are a little on the pricey "side" but we feel this may solve some serious issues with solid-lifter cams vs. cam lobe failures. The are for use in both the SB's and the BB's. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. We were fortunate enough to get in a few sets of the new Comp's solid rollers, but they sold as quick as they arrived. We see them as a
"big" seller on the street scene! They use a "non-captured" link bar, we do like this particular feature.
We just finished a few weeks of testing Comp Cam's new 883-16 solid roller lifters. They have the pressure-fed pin oiling down to the wheels and axles the same as Isky's "Red-Zones" and Crower's "Hippo's". We've had no issues whatsoever with the lifter's or the oil pressure. We used a std. M-77 pump with the Melling hi-pressure "purple" spring, #M77020 installed, these was BB's we were doing. They will be excellent lifters for extended street use.
The other issue is the new flat-tappet "solids" from "Ferrea Racing". Weighing in at only 59 grams, they're 30 grams lighter than the original "Johnson's" AND have the EDM hole at the bottom to help cam break-in and to extend lobe life. They are a little on the pricey "side" but we feel this may solve some serious issues with solid-lifter cams vs. cam lobe failures. The are for use in both the SB's and the BB's. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. We were fortunate enough to get in a few sets of the new Comp's solid rollers, but they sold as quick as they arrived. We see them as a
"big" seller on the street scene! They use a "non-captured" link bar, we do like this particular feature.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Lite valvetrain helps permit a motor to rev higher. Roller lifters are heavy; needing xtra spring pressure.
Properly manufactured, installed, broken-in & maintained flat tappet cams & lifters last a LONG time and perform VERY well.
Simply as a gage/reference:
All Cup motors have lite, solid FLAT lifters ... some were pushing right at 10K last season. They spend big$ on their cams' & lifters' manufacture & prep. They're replaced VERY often.
All Busch & Truck motors have lite, solid ROLLER lifters ... they don't turn near the revs the Cup motors do. Though not as often as Cup, they're replaced often too.
Nascar REQUIRES the cars to have specific decals on the front fenders ... nascar issues all teams some of their decal packs ... but just because fender has a comp sticker doesn't confirm there's a comp cam in it ... just as having a waste management sticker on it doesn't ensure WM hauls off Johnson's trash.
Properly manufactured, installed, broken-in & maintained flat tappet cams & lifters last a LONG time and perform VERY well.
Simply as a gage/reference:
All Cup motors have lite, solid FLAT lifters ... some were pushing right at 10K last season. They spend big$ on their cams' & lifters' manufacture & prep. They're replaced VERY often.
All Busch & Truck motors have lite, solid ROLLER lifters ... they don't turn near the revs the Cup motors do. Though not as often as Cup, they're replaced often too.
Nascar REQUIRES the cars to have specific decals on the front fenders ... nascar issues all teams some of their decal packs ... but just because fender has a comp sticker doesn't confirm there's a comp cam in it ... just as having a waste management sticker on it doesn't ensure WM hauls off Johnson's trash.
Last edited by jackson; May 2, 2006 at 12:14 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
Originally Posted by Little Mouse
Iron Cross if you will think back All 66 to 69 street hemis had a
very mild solid. 1970 they changed over to an even weaker hyd.
all the street hemis were not much whitout a lot of tuning and
modding, they were a bear when modified.
very mild solid. 1970 they changed over to an even weaker hyd.
all the street hemis were not much whitout a lot of tuning and
modding, they were a bear when modified.
see this link for the 1965 A990 Race Hemi`s http://www.thehemi.com/notable.php?id=003
Last edited by Ironcross; May 2, 2006 at 04:01 PM.
