ZZ502 VS. Built 383?
NCM Grand Opening Veteran
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,979
Likes: 384
From: South of giving a damn
St. Jude Donor '11, '17
Originally Posted by ajrothm
Searching around for crate and built motors, this keeps popping up in my mind. To get 500 crank hp out of a 383, it seems that its going to have to be a pretty radical motor with a correct combination of parts to get the power. Why not just buy a ZZ502? Its carb to pan for $7500.
You can also get the 502 shortblock w/ unassembled alum heads for less than $6300. All the parts for the heads are included, you put the heads together. No intake, carb, dist for that price though.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,165
Likes: 950
From: Keizer Oregon
As long as you don't want to turn, a 502 is the better option........I seem to remember a story by NorvalWilhelm about "racing" a saleen rustnag on an on-ramp and getting his butt kicked on the corners, despite have WAY more power...blown big block and all.....If you are interested in a road car I think a light, aluminum head stroker small block is the way to go.......With a nice Hydraulic roller, AFR heads, Forged rotating assembly I think you could come in at <$5500, which would give you 500hp and enough cash for high end brakes or suspension.....just my $.02
Either way you will still have a 500hp C3
Either way you will still have a 500hp C3
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
Originally Posted by oregonsharkman
As long as you don't want to turn, a 502 is the better option........I seem to remember a story by NorvalWilhelm about "racing" a saleen rustnag on an on-ramp and getting his butt kicked on the corners, despite have WAY more power...blown big block and all.....If you are interested in a road car I think a light, aluminum head stroker small block is the way to go.......With a nice Hydraulic roller, AFR heads, Forged rotating assembly I think you could come in at <$5500, which would give you 500hp and enough cash for high end brakes or suspension.....just my $.02
Either way you will still have a 500hp C3
Either way you will still have a 500hp C3
T and L engines offers a nice 450hp 383 for $4700 but its not forged.
Recipe:
Averaged forged 383 with roller block, 1pc seal= $2500
195cc AFRs=$1500
XE 282 roller cam, push rods, roller rockers=$1000
Air gap intake, oil pan, water pump, 750 demon, timing cover, valve covers=$1000
Thats $6k not counting the misc BS, plugs, wires, distributor, starter, flywheel etc.
I guess after all is said and done, you could do a ***** out 383 for the same price as a ZZ502, make the same HP, but less torque and 200 less lbs. Ofcourse you have a way more radical motor that has no warranty and probably will not last as long.. Decisions decisions
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 10
From: Big Pine Key FL
Torque is what you drive...
Took the 502 Ramjet to work today and had a clear strech of Interstate...
Punching the throttle at 70 in 4th, tires searching for traction, and getting slamed into the seat is priceless.
Only a couple of days left until I have 5th and 6th to play with
My ramjet/alu rad vs my iron 350 and copper rad worked out about the same. And I had the Steeroids in place on the 350.
Handling with the 502 is not an issue cause I can use the throttle to steer as well as the fronts.
I'm pleased with the 502. It starts and runs like a moden car. Instant throttle response anywhere in the RPM range. Traction is better but still a problem with 325/50/15's Drag Radials on the rear.
It does run out of breath above 5500, but shfting at 5500 through the gears will get you in trouble right quick.
Sure you can roll your own BBC and do better if you have some experience.
502 ramjet $8550 delivered with warranty! big block
Took the 502 Ramjet to work today and had a clear strech of Interstate...
Punching the throttle at 70 in 4th, tires searching for traction, and getting slamed into the seat is priceless.
Only a couple of days left until I have 5th and 6th to play with
My ramjet/alu rad vs my iron 350 and copper rad worked out about the same. And I had the Steeroids in place on the 350.
Handling with the 502 is not an issue cause I can use the throttle to steer as well as the fronts.
I'm pleased with the 502. It starts and runs like a moden car. Instant throttle response anywhere in the RPM range. Traction is better but still a problem with 325/50/15's Drag Radials on the rear.
It does run out of breath above 5500, but shfting at 5500 through the gears will get you in trouble right quick.
Sure you can roll your own BBC and do better if you have some experience.
502 ramjet $8550 delivered with warranty! big block
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Norval has a lot of extra wheight with the blower two carbs up front.
you might get a hair in a corner on a normal big block, coming
out of the corner that big block will blow past your small block like
its stuck in the mud and he will have a big edge in getting around the next corner , and then be further gone from you to the next corner.
John greenwood and a lot of others did not have a small block to
get serious with they had rats. Still like small blocks they are just
a little on the weak side.
you might get a hair in a corner on a normal big block, coming
out of the corner that big block will blow past your small block like
its stuck in the mud and he will have a big edge in getting around the next corner , and then be further gone from you to the next corner.
John greenwood and a lot of others did not have a small block to
get serious with they had rats. Still like small blocks they are just
a little on the weak side.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 16,100
Likes: 17
No doubt in my mind....this is in my 69...M22 Rockcrusher..3.70:1 rear..
Cooling..no problem...traffic in 100 F....never sees 210...
Punch this sucker in 4th at 50,and keep both hands on the steering wheel...
Rich
Cooling..no problem...traffic in 100 F....never sees 210...
Punch this sucker in 4th at 50,and keep both hands on the steering wheel...
Rich
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 761
Likes: 0
From: san jose California
well im well into my parts list for my 383 this summer, just finished looking at my afr catalog that just came in , turns out the engine im looking to build will have around 500 hp with a 280 comp cam, and 10 :1 compression, seems reasonable for me, and my build is going to be on a budget a tad over 4gs, not bad, since the goodwrench engine i have now only cost 1200, haha,, funny thing, i just realized my heads are gonna cost more than my engine did
i dono.. id go big block if i could, but im looking for drivability, like EVERY Fing DAY!! id save a big block for when i get a chrome bumper car... but i dono if you have one so that last one dosent apply to you
, turns out the engine im looking to build will have around 500 hp with a 280 comp cam, and 10 :1 compression, seems reasonable for me, and my build is going to be on a budget a tad over 4gs, not bad, since the goodwrench engine i have now only cost 1200, haha,, funny thing, i just realized my heads are gonna cost more than my engine did i dono.. id go big block if i could, but im looking for drivability, like EVERY Fing DAY!! id save a big block for when i get a chrome bumper car... but i dono if you have one so that last one dosent apply to you
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Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
Originally Posted by hensen1954
Would a Procharger on a sbc be better for what you want ?
That thought crossed my mind but.. I currently have a turbo on a Hayabusa and I am fully aware of the tuning and constant maintenance of a forced induction setup. I just want this one simple and strong, reliable and not melting pistons.
BTW my bike makes 280rwhp out of 1300cc.
Senior Member since 1492
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 87,927
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From: Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me...
St. Jude Donor '09
Down side to the 502 is it weighs 250-300lbs more then a small block,
http://www.241computers.com/ford/Con...s20-30-38.html
There is no downside to a 502.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,411
Likes: 2
From: St. Louis, Missouri
Yes, the LS6 has aluminum heads but there was no LS6 in 1970. LS5 was it. Excluding the one in production now for the C5, the LS6 was a one year only engine. (1971)
Originally Posted by ajrothm
No not sure about the actual weight between a BB and a SB. I know an original 70' LT1 is listed at 3360lbs and the 70 LS6 was listed at 3478lbs but I believe the 70 LS6 in a vette had aluminum heads right?
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 10
From: Big Pine Key FL
Originally Posted by ajrothm
That thought crossed my mind but.. I currently have a turbo on a Hayabusa and I am fully aware of the tuning and constant maintenance of a forced induction setup. I just want this one simple and strong, reliable and not melting pistons.
BTW my bike makes 280rwhp out of 1300cc.
BTW my bike makes 280rwhp out of 1300cc.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 16,100
Likes: 17
I weighed both my vettes...certified scales
78 L-82 4 speed = 3570
69 502 4 speed = 3380
I'm convinced the 502 weight is in between the L-82 and a 427 cast iron head engine....certainly not 200 more than the L-82...maybe 60 lbs ???
78 L-82 4 speed = 3570
69 502 4 speed = 3380
I'm convinced the 502 weight is in between the L-82 and a 427 cast iron head engine....certainly not 200 more than the L-82...maybe 60 lbs ???
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 1
From: Milford Haven Pembrokeshire
Originally Posted by ajrothm
That thought crossed my mind but.. I currently have a turbo on a Hayabusa and I am fully aware of the tuning and constant maintenance of a forced induction setup. I just want this one simple and strong, reliable and not melting pistons.
BTW my bike makes 280rwhp out of 1300cc.
BTW my bike makes 280rwhp out of 1300cc.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 1
From: Milford Haven Pembrokeshire
Instructor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 184
Likes: 13
I have a big block (396) in my 74. A big block is a great choice but don't under estimate the cost of getting the right brackets and pullies to run your PS, air, etc. All year C3 Corvette big blocks use the same brackets. Open up one of the major supplier catalogs and price them out berfore you take the plunge. As far as overheating, like a lot of forum members I have a Dewitts aluminum radiator with the dual spal fan set up and I have no overheating problems. From strictly a cost perspective the small block is a less expensive choice, but there is something about a big block in a C3 that makes the expense worthwhile. Just make sure you you take into account the upgrades/changes to the cooling system, front suspension, exhaust, and brackets before you make your final decision.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,855
Likes: 2
From: Columbia South Carolina
Originally Posted by Neo Fender
Yes, the LS6 has aluminum heads but there was no LS6 in 1970. LS5 was it. Excluding the one in production now for the C5, the LS6 was a one year only engine. (1971)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 4
From: Va
T & L has the Forged 408 SBC Stroker for $4350 (additional for carb,distributor, water pump). He built a 383 non-forged for me last year, solid motor and Lloyd the owner knows is Shxt about engines. He takes great pride in his work, believe you me I just about drove him nuts specing-out my engine. but we still had a laugh everytime I called him. I don't think you will find a better value anywhere else.
He is more than willing for you to come onsite and watch your engine dynoed too.
He is more than willing for you to come onsite and watch your engine dynoed too.