Question about rear sway bar sizing
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,183
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From: out of nowhere
Originally Posted by 69autoXr
Rear bars add oversteer---you cannot cure an existing oversteer problem by adding a rear bar, it will make it worse.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,183
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From: out of nowhere
Originally Posted by bashcraft
You're having problems that other cars don't have. I think you need to look for the actual cause instead of trying to fix it with a band-aid.
I'm not looking to band aid. I just didn't know. Thank god for this forum!!!
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
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From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Originally Posted by litevette
I'm not looking to band aid. I just didn't know. Thank god for this forum!!!In a straight line on a smooth road sway bars are not helping or hurting anything.
I've driven some fast door slammer type drag cars and they don't feel at all safe to me when you let off of the gas after the lights. Their problem is wallowing big rear slicks without much air pressure and 4 link solid axles were only made to work under power. Well little skinnies on the front don't inspirer much turning confidence either
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,183
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From: out of nowhere
Originally Posted by gkull
If any car is unstable and I wanted to fix it. Do the simple stuff first. you have to have good - shocks, springs, ball joints, steering parts, and A-arm bushings.
In a straight line on a smooth road sway bars are not helping or hurting anything.
I've driven some fast door slammer type drag cars and they don't feel at all safe to me when you let off of the gas after the lights. Their problem is wallowing big rear slicks without much air pressure and 4 link solid axles were only made to work under power. Well little skinnies on the front don't inspirer much turning confidence either
In a straight line on a smooth road sway bars are not helping or hurting anything.
I've driven some fast door slammer type drag cars and they don't feel at all safe to me when you let off of the gas after the lights. Their problem is wallowing big rear slicks without much air pressure and 4 link solid axles were only made to work under power. Well little skinnies on the front don't inspirer much turning confidence either
My rear tires are only 10" wide, so that may or may not have the effect you are talking about. Lucky you getting to drive those door slammers!!!!
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
The quickest check on ball joints for our old Vettes is:
If they still have the rivets (not nuts) they are the original and they should be replaced.
Grinder or heat them with a torch and knock them through. Just be carefull not to damage the A-arms. MOOG makes a good set.
If they still have the rivets (not nuts) they are the original and they should be replaced.
Grinder or heat them with a torch and knock them through. Just be carefull not to damage the A-arms. MOOG makes a good set.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
I do run coilovers so my car might be different but I found a rear bar really stabalized the car. Even helped the darty feeling in the front end and particularly helped the high speed breaking.
I do run a huge 1 1/4 inch rear speedway bar.
I also found it makes the ride alot rougher but again it really stablized the car.
I do run a huge 1 1/4 inch rear speedway bar.
I also found it makes the ride alot rougher but again it really stablized the car.
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Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
Originally Posted by Van Steel
Rear bar size should be determined by what front bar you have. With these rear bars you should match up a new front bar with it as well. What works best together is
1" Front 5/8" Rear
1 1/8" Front 3/4" Rear
1 1/4" Front 7/8" Rear
Anything over an 1/18" Front & 3/4" Rear will be pretty stiff. Using unmatched front & rear bars can cause over or understeer depending on which bar sizes you are using.
1" Front 5/8" Rear
1 1/8" Front 3/4" Rear
1 1/4" Front 7/8" Rear
Anything over an 1/18" Front & 3/4" Rear will be pretty stiff. Using unmatched front & rear bars can cause over or understeer depending on which bar sizes you are using.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,838
Likes: 10
From: Austin TX
I'm no suspension expert, but I don't know if I agree with the sway bar combo's either. Too many variables,..primarily front-end weight. A BB car with A/C, pwr steer, pwr brakes, will weigh 300 pounds more than a SB car with no A/C, no pwr brakes and/or no pwr steer,..and most this weight is concentrated up front (on the BB example),..which would require a stiffer sway bar up front for sure.
But out back, I'm not sure there would be a big differerence in sway bar needs of the two examples above, since again, most the weight difference is concentrated up front.
Set me straight if I'm not thinking clearly.
But out back, I'm not sure there would be a big differerence in sway bar needs of the two examples above, since again, most the weight difference is concentrated up front.
Set me straight if I'm not thinking clearly.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Guys why don't you ask the car?? Bolt one on and give it a try. If you really want to work out combinations you have to spend some money. It isn't that expensive to buy a bar, bolt it on and try it for yourself.
I have done up to 3 front spring changes in a day just for testing, sure it costs, gives you good experience.
I have done up to 3 front spring changes in a day just for testing, sure it costs, gives you good experience.
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,312
Likes: 70
From: Clearwater FL
I agree there are many many different variables out there to consider which bar might be best for you. It does depend on what options your car does have and it does depend on what goal you are trying to achieve. The bar sizes listed above are a general idea of what works best together, but again you have your different variable. Some guys like stiff sways and soft springs some like the opposite. Thats why it's best to call us so we can get idea of what your trying to achieve. You will also note that just about every vendor that sell aftermarket bars will have them list like I did above.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,183
Likes: 1,178
From: out of nowhere
Originally Posted by gkull
The quickest check on ball joints for our old Vettes is:
If they still have the rivets (not nuts) they are the original and they should be replaced.
Grinder or heat them with a torch and knock them through. Just be carefull not to damage the A-arms. MOOG makes a good set.
If they still have the rivets (not nuts) they are the original and they should be replaced.
Grinder or heat them with a torch and knock them through. Just be carefull not to damage the A-arms. MOOG makes a good set.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,183
Likes: 1,178
From: out of nowhere
Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
Even helped the darty feeling in the front end and particularly helped the high speed breaking.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,183
Likes: 1,178
From: out of nowhere
Originally Posted by 73, Dark Blue 454
I'm no suspension expert, but I don't know if I agree with the sway bar combo's either. Too many variables,..primarily front-end weight. A BB car with A/C, pwr steer, pwr brakes, will weigh 300 pounds more than a SB car with no A/C, no pwr brakes and/or no pwr steer,..and most this weight is concentrated up front (on the BB example),..which would require a stiffer sway bar up front for sure.
But out back, I'm not sure there would be a big differerence in sway bar needs of the two examples above, since again, most the weight difference is concentrated up front.
Set me straight if I'm not thinking clearly.
But out back, I'm not sure there would be a big differerence in sway bar needs of the two examples above, since again, most the weight difference is concentrated up front.
Set me straight if I'm not thinking clearly.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,399
Likes: 247
From: San Jose CA
I think your best bet is to start with GKull's advice and then go to play with sway bars like Norval recommends.
You can't be scientific about this if the bushings are shot - there will just be too many variables at that point. It sounds to me like you have some rear suspension trouble - probably shot strut rod bushings or trailing arm bushings(actually, more than likely it's both). Also, how's your alignment doing? That should be checked out too. Go to a good alignment shop and let them know what purposes you're driving the car for.
You can't be scientific about this if the bushings are shot - there will just be too many variables at that point. It sounds to me like you have some rear suspension trouble - probably shot strut rod bushings or trailing arm bushings(actually, more than likely it's both). Also, how's your alignment doing? That should be checked out too. Go to a good alignment shop and let them know what purposes you're driving the car for.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,183
Likes: 1,178
From: out of nowhere
Originally Posted by Shark Racer
I think your best bet is to start with GKull's advice and then go to play with sway bars like Norval recommends.
You can't be scientific about this if the bushings are shot - there will just be too many variables at that point. It sounds to me like you have some rear suspension trouble - probably shot strut rod bushings or trailing arm bushings(actually, more than likely it's both). Also, how's your alignment doing? That should be checked out too. Go to a good alignment shop and let them know what purposes you're driving the car for.
You can't be scientific about this if the bushings are shot - there will just be too many variables at that point. It sounds to me like you have some rear suspension trouble - probably shot strut rod bushings or trailing arm bushings(actually, more than likely it's both). Also, how's your alignment doing? That should be checked out too. Go to a good alignment shop and let them know what purposes you're driving the car for.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 29,335
Likes: 51
From: Monterey, CA
Originally Posted by litevette
I have new "Smart" struts, new trailing arm bushings and shims. Front to rear alignment had been done about 2 months prior. The problem only showed its self when I was testing out the nitrous. I did a few back street test runs up to maybe 100 m.p.h. As soon as I let off it got all "darty".