SBC Large base tripower with nitrous: update
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,892
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From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
[QUOTE=63mako]
Oh ya, that is you now !! I like everything you did, be careful about bumping the rev limiter on the nitrous, not good.
The 114 LSA is questionable, particulalry on only a 150 shot. What kind of tranny ?? The 114 will idle nice though and should be very smooth.
I would personally run a 110 with an auto tranny, but it is really not that big of a deal.
I assume you figured the fuel side holes to be run with 6 lbs of presure, are the holes the same size for the nitrous and fuel ??
Yes, the car is a blast to drive.
Originally Posted by 69 N.O.X. RATT
That is not me, it is Little Mouse. My motor will see 6500 then rev limiter
I am running a MSD 6ALN box and MSD distributor, Engine specs are 383, 10.2 to 1, Billet main caps, All ARP studed, forged bottom end , 4340 Eagle lightweight crank, Callies 6" H beam rods, Mahle high silicon low expansion forged pistons. Comp cams Retro roller with 520, 540 lift 236 242 duration @.050 114 LSA, 110 centerline, AFR 190 heads Comp pro magnum roller rockers. The wide LSA is Nitrous and street friendly. Drilled the plates 2 years ago when I put it on on my Small base tripower setup. Don't remember the size but I do remember doing all the math to figure it out. Triple checked the sizing from 3 different sources and found out what size the holes on the spray bar needed to be to run 150 hp shot. All three sources figures came out the same sizing. This was done because I wanted to jet at the solinoids rather than the plates and was looking to maintain balanced pressure at all the holes to avoid a lean condition at the front plates. Too large of holes would bleed the pressure at the closest bar and could have resulted in a lean front plate as you said earlier. Been there, done that! You have an awesome looking setup there.
I seen your post on your new best time. That has to be a major adrenaline RUSH!
I am running a MSD 6ALN box and MSD distributor, Engine specs are 383, 10.2 to 1, Billet main caps, All ARP studed, forged bottom end , 4340 Eagle lightweight crank, Callies 6" H beam rods, Mahle high silicon low expansion forged pistons. Comp cams Retro roller with 520, 540 lift 236 242 duration @.050 114 LSA, 110 centerline, AFR 190 heads Comp pro magnum roller rockers. The wide LSA is Nitrous and street friendly. Drilled the plates 2 years ago when I put it on on my Small base tripower setup. Don't remember the size but I do remember doing all the math to figure it out. Triple checked the sizing from 3 different sources and found out what size the holes on the spray bar needed to be to run 150 hp shot. All three sources figures came out the same sizing. This was done because I wanted to jet at the solinoids rather than the plates and was looking to maintain balanced pressure at all the holes to avoid a lean condition at the front plates. Too large of holes would bleed the pressure at the closest bar and could have resulted in a lean front plate as you said earlier. Been there, done that! You have an awesome looking setup there. I seen your post on your new best time. That has to be a major adrenaline RUSH!The 114 LSA is questionable, particulalry on only a 150 shot. What kind of tranny ?? The 114 will idle nice though and should be very smooth.
I would personally run a 110 with an auto tranny, but it is really not that big of a deal.
I assume you figured the fuel side holes to be run with 6 lbs of presure, are the holes the same size for the nitrous and fuel ??
Yes, the car is a blast to drive.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
[QUOTE=69 N.O.X. RATT]
Oh ya, that is you now !! I like everything you did, be careful about bumping the rev limiter on the nitrous, not good.
The 114 LSA is questionable, particulalry on only a 150 shot. What kind of tranny ?? The 114 will idle nice though and should be very smooth.
I would personally run a 110 with an auto tranny, but it is really not that big of a deal.
I assume you figured the fuel side holes to be run with 6 lbs of presure, are the holes the same size for the nitrous and fuel ??
Yes, the car is a blast to drive.
I went with the 114 after much debate for the smoothness, streetability and the nitrous. Like I said I am building a wicked street/ show car. I think it will also bump up my dynamic compression a little with less overlap. I have a manual car, 4:11 gear. I was going to go with the TKO 600 but decided recently on an Autogear Super M-22. want to keep it old school and save better than $1000. I do have a budget! Yes, the fuel side was figured at 6 PSI and the nitrous side figured out to be a different size I figured the nitrous a hair big and jetted it down because the pressure is so much higher you shouldn't vary at the plates . I know they were really tiny drill bits. Bought the set and only used them once. I have six holes total on both fuel and nitrous. The plate tubes are stacked. the lower fuel tube shoots straight out the side of the tube and the nitrous tube is above shooting down at about a 30 degree angle to intersect with the fuel flow for atomization of the fuel. My engine builder told me this setup shooting into the flow of the carb would probably also help atomize the A/F coming in from the carb and it could well add more hp than 150 from the better atomization when running the nitrous.
Originally Posted by 63mako
Oh ya, that is you now !! I like everything you did, be careful about bumping the rev limiter on the nitrous, not good.
The 114 LSA is questionable, particulalry on only a 150 shot. What kind of tranny ?? The 114 will idle nice though and should be very smooth.
I would personally run a 110 with an auto tranny, but it is really not that big of a deal.
I assume you figured the fuel side holes to be run with 6 lbs of presure, are the holes the same size for the nitrous and fuel ??
Yes, the car is a blast to drive.
Last edited by 63mako; Jul 25, 2006 at 01:31 AM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
Nitrous system do not rely on the carb setup to feed them. Other then looks what are you gaining with 3 carbs over one good 4 barrel? YOu are gaining more problems in the tuning department, jetting changes become 3 times the work and 3 times the chance of trouble.
One 4 barrel minimizes the problems, the tuning and will 3 carbs really outproform a single one???
One 4 barrel minimizes the problems, the tuning and will 3 carbs really outproform a single one???
Look at what you built! A lot of unconventional mods! Aren't you the guy that is always reinventing the wheel?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
No one seems to know if mallory products are any good. May just try mallory to have something different. Mr gasket company owning mallory is a little scary
in the news a few days ago Mr gasket bought Mcloed industries. Is there a
company that Mr Gasket does not own left out there.
in the news a few days ago Mr gasket bought Mcloed industries. Is there a
company that Mr Gasket does not own left out there.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Jul 25, 2006 at 05:07 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
114 LSA will not be as smooth and stock-like as you think with .236/.242@.050.
My cam in my LS1 is 237/242@.050, .603/.608 lift on a 113 LSA and this thing is gawd awful nasty sounding. The engine rocks so bad in the car I am about to put new solid motor mounts in it. Its Hella radical. It doesn't even start to pull until 4k. I shift it at 6800rpms. And yes, it LOVES the juice. If I could figure out the video on my camera, I would take a video of it at idle for you to show you what a 113 LSA sounds like. LOL
I think you will have a strong motor....at least 480hp at the crank.
My cam in my LS1 is 237/242@.050, .603/.608 lift on a 113 LSA and this thing is gawd awful nasty sounding. The engine rocks so bad in the car I am about to put new solid motor mounts in it. Its Hella radical. It doesn't even start to pull until 4k. I shift it at 6800rpms. And yes, it LOVES the juice. If I could figure out the video on my camera, I would take a video of it at idle for you to show you what a 113 LSA sounds like. LOL
I think you will have a strong motor....at least 480hp at the crank.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
You mentioned drilling the nitrous spray bars?? Can you drill your own spray bars?? I did alot of this long before the cheater and big shot systems came out and I used a very high dollar EDM system and a very thin piece of electrical wire for doing the spray bars as well as a jig with dial verniers to keep the holes uniformly spaced for even flow.
This is a homemade spray system built into the intake to cut down on height
This is a homemade spray system built into the intake to cut down on height
Last edited by norvalwilhelm; Jul 25, 2006 at 02:23 PM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
You mentioned drilling the nitrous spray bars?? Can you drill your own spray bars?? I did alot of this long before the cheater and big shot systems came out and I used a very high dollar EDM system and a very thin piece of electrical wire for doing the spray bars as well as a jig with dial verniers to keep the holes uniformly spaced for even flow.
This is a homemade spray system built into the intake to cut down on height
This is a homemade spray system built into the intake to cut down on height
. My original setup was for a 75 shot. I enlarged the holes to accomadate the 150 shot. 6 nitrous holes 6 fuel holes total, one of each spraying into the center of each carb intake port. You have to figure sizing, find a set of drills tiny size and make sure the spray patterns intersect. It is kind of like the port injection nozzles in design.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by 63mako
Come on Norvil, Just because it is difficult and everybody else is not doing it seems like a good reason for me to do it. Look at what you built! A lot of unconventional mods! Aren't you the guy that is always reinventing the wheel?
Look at what you built! A lot of unconventional mods! Aren't you the guy that is always reinventing the wheel?I have run dual carbs for more then 7 years on this car and at least that much on another car and I know the hassels of dealing with multiple setups. I ran 4 carbs for years on a race bike.
Agian it is different but also complicated, hard to tune and I honestly don't feel it is a step forward.
With my car I will not knowingly do things for looks alone, it must improve the overall performance or I am not interested.
I have often seen in print that multicarbs are for looks but if you want performance stick to a good 4 barrel. In my case I needed 2 to feed the motor, no matter what size single I would have choosen it would not be big enough.
You are doing nice work.
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Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Originally Posted by ajrothm
114 LSA will not be as smooth and stock-like as you think with .236/.242@.050.
My cam in my LS1 is 237/242@.050, .603/.608 lift on a 113 LSA and this thing is gawd awful nasty sounding. The engine rocks so bad in the car I am about to put new solid motor mounts in it. Its Hella radical. It doesn't even start to pull until 4k. I shift it at 6800rpms. And yes, it LOVES the juice. If I could figure out the video on my camera, I would take a video of it at idle for you to show you what a 113 LSA sounds like. LOL
I think you will have a strong motor....at least 480hp at the crank.
My cam in my LS1 is 237/242@.050, .603/.608 lift on a 113 LSA and this thing is gawd awful nasty sounding. The engine rocks so bad in the car I am about to put new solid motor mounts in it. Its Hella radical. It doesn't even start to pull until 4k. I shift it at 6800rpms. And yes, it LOVES the juice. If I could figure out the video on my camera, I would take a video of it at idle for you to show you what a 113 LSA sounds like. LOL
I think you will have a strong motor....at least 480hp at the crank.
If you can take a video that would be awesome. I think you can upload video to photobucket . com and load it right on to your post. I have heard this cam at 110 LSA and it sounds pretty nasty but it weould be great to hear it at 113 LSA in a similar style engine. Think anybody will notice it with the hooker sidepipes and new MAX FLOWS?
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by 63mako
I seen a picture of that on here, very . My original setup was for a 75 shot. I enlarged the holes to accomadate the 150 shot. 6 nitrous holes 6 fuel holes total, one of each spraying into the center of each carb intake port. You have to figure sizing, find a set of drills tiny size and make sure the spray patterns intersect. It is kind of like the port injection nozzles in design.
. My original setup was for a 75 shot. I enlarged the holes to accomadate the 150 shot. 6 nitrous holes 6 fuel holes total, one of each spraying into the center of each carb intake port. You have to figure sizing, find a set of drills tiny size and make sure the spray patterns intersect. It is kind of like the port injection nozzles in design.I personally would stick to 100 horse for safety. At the 100 horse level you do NOT need special plugs, fuel system or timing. At the 150 level you start to need a dedicated system.
I have seen a 100 horse system drop a 16 second car into the 13.90
