400 Stroker?
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Pro
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Shelby Twp MI
400 Stroker?
I have an opportunity to purchase a 4-bolt 400 SBC block w/crank (standard bore) and I'm wondering if ther is such thing as a 400/4XX Stroker similar to the 350/383 set-up. If so, any comments and/or recommendations on parts?
NCM Grand Opening Veteran
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: South of giving a damn
St. Jude Donor '11, '17
Sure, depending upon the block, you can potentially strech it up to 434. Eaglerod.com has the kits listed. I'm sure others (Scat, etc) have kits.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
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From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Originally Posted by Emeightch
I have an opportunity to purchase a 4-bolt 400 SBC block w/crank (standard bore) and I'm wondering if ther is such thing as a 400/4XX Stroker similar to the 350/383 set-up. If so, any comments and/or recommendations on parts?
Probably won't go back up w/ std bores ... just build a thirty-over, long-rod (6") 406. A set of Wiseco ProTru forged dished (-20cc) pistons P/N PT019H3 includes ringset ... I've seen em on ebay from $400-$525. A set of 6" Scat capscrewed rods P/N 2-ICR6000 ... ebay $200-$225. A pair of Brodix aluminum IK200 64cc heads about $1000/pr. A small base circle hydraulic flat tappet cam about $150. This'll put static CR at about 9.8:1 ... great for pump gas w/ alum heads. Performer 2101 intake'll work just fine w/ a freshened Qjet. Look around for a link to TWO articles I think appeared in chevy hi-po rag ... titled Impersonator 1 & Impersonator 2 ... both are fairly basic & streetable 406 buildup that made about 450 hp without breaking the bank. G'Luck!
C6 the C5 of tomorrow
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Twin Cities Minnesota
I have a 434 I built in '98 and if I were to do it over I'd do just a 406. Plenty of power :-)
There's little advantage to a 434, or bigger, as rod/stroke ratios and stuff starts to fall apart. A 6" rod 406 would be a real nice machine.
Keith
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Originally Posted by Gordonm
415, 421 are a popular kit. 434 is stretching it for a 400 block but many have been done.
the 3.875 strokers are the way to go with a 350 or 400 block. IMO - I would never buy another stock block. You have to put a bunch of time and money into them. It's more cost effective to just buy a Bill Mitchell 415 or 427 short block.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Wildwood IL
Originally Posted by jackson
Probably won't go back up w/ std bores ... just build a thirty-over, long-rod (6") 406. A set of Wiseco ProTru forged dished (-20cc) pistons P/N PT019H3 includes ringset ... I've seen em on ebay from $400-$525. A set of 6" Scat capscrewed rods P/N 2-ICR6000 ... ebay $200-$225. A pair of Brodix aluminum IK200 64cc heads about $1000/pr. A small base circle hydraulic flat tappet cam about $150. This'll put static CR at about 9.8:1 ... great for pump gas w/ alum heads. Performer 2101 intake'll work just fine w/ a freshened Qjet. Look around for a link to TWO articles I think appeared in chevy hi-po rag ... titled Impersonator 1 & Impersonator 2 ... both are fairly basic & streetable 406 buildup that made about 450 hp without breaking the bank. G'Luck!
Very close to what I'm building except AFR 210's and a Crower Hydrol roller.
Here are those articles Jackson was talking about. Read both, because the second is an extension of the first.
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...que/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ild/index.html
Good luck
Eddie
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 123
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From: Springfield OH
[QUOTE=jackson]Seems counter-intuitive but it's true ... 4bolt 400 is weaker than a 2 bolt. 4bolt not the best ... but not bad at all. Keep the hp under about 450 it'll be fine in a street car.
jackson,
i was just wondering why you believe this is true. not flaming, just wondering (and learning).
thanks,
kbosland
jackson,
i was just wondering why you believe this is true. not flaming, just wondering (and learning).
thanks,
kbosland
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Race Director
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 10,643
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From: Foxfield CO 1970 Convertible
[QUOTE=kbosland]
Most builders agree with this. Evidently, drilling out the metal for the extra bolts weakens the crank support in that area...
406 is a pretty popular size for 400 block cars. All of my Vettes have 400/406 engines.
Originally Posted by jackson
Seems counter-intuitive but it's true ... 4bolt 400 is weaker than a 2 bolt. 4bolt not the best ... but not bad at all. Keep the hp under about 450 it'll be fine in a street car.
jackson,
i was just wondering why you believe this is true. not flaming, just wondering (and learning).
thanks,
kbosland
jackson,
i was just wondering why you believe this is true. not flaming, just wondering (and learning).
thanks,
kbosland
406 is a pretty popular size for 400 block cars. All of my Vettes have 400/406 engines.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
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From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
sbc400: my best take on why OE 2 stronger than OE 4
my best take ... others please add if you've got more or better info:
400 has 1/8" bigger bore than 350 ... and since bore centers are same ... 400's bigger bore also cuts into the bulkheads more... the bulkheads are what the main bolts/studs thread into ... the 400 bulkheads are a bit weaker than 350 bulkheads. The outboard (4bolt) bolts thread into an area of 400 bulkhead that's not so strong ... unless it's a 2bolt converted via "splayed" outboard bolts ... splayed bolts are angled away from crank-bore centerline. Of course, the 400 block has less meat between the bores at the deck too. Unless you're building an all out race motor ... the 4bolt 400 is fine. Regardless if 2 or 4 ... and before sinking any $ into machinework/parts ... check that 400 block REAL CLOSE for cracking.
400 has 1/8" bigger bore than 350 ... and since bore centers are same ... 400's bigger bore also cuts into the bulkheads more... the bulkheads are what the main bolts/studs thread into ... the 400 bulkheads are a bit weaker than 350 bulkheads. The outboard (4bolt) bolts thread into an area of 400 bulkhead that's not so strong ... unless it's a 2bolt converted via "splayed" outboard bolts ... splayed bolts are angled away from crank-bore centerline. Of course, the 400 block has less meat between the bores at the deck too. Unless you're building an all out race motor ... the 4bolt 400 is fine. Regardless if 2 or 4 ... and before sinking any $ into machinework/parts ... check that 400 block REAL CLOSE for cracking.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,943
Likes: 3
From: Wildwood IL
Originally Posted by jackson
my best take ... others please add if you've got more or better info:
400 has 1/8" bigger bore than 350 ... and since bore centers are same ... .
400 has 1/8" bigger bore than 350 ... and since bore centers are same ... .
Eddie
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,506
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From: Butler Pa
[QUOTE=kbosland]
I broke one a while back. It wasn't pretty.
Originally Posted by jackson
Seems counter-intuitive but it's true ... 4bolt 400 is weaker than a 2 bolt. 4bolt not the best ... but not bad at all. Keep the hp under about 450 it'll be fine in a street car.
jackson,
i was just wondering why you believe this is true. not flaming, just wondering (and learning).
thanks,
kbosland
jackson,
i was just wondering why you believe this is true. not flaming, just wondering (and learning).
thanks,
kbosland
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: Springfield OH
400 stuff
Gang,
Thanks for all the good info you've provided. I'm sure emeightch is gaining some good feedback as am I. bashcraft--you said you broke one. can you give a little more detail? was it abusive or in a race application? the reason i'm so interested is b/c i too have the chance to buy a 400 4-bolt and am interested in building a 406 or big inch sbc. also, i am currently taking an engines class at my community college and have been talking to the instructor about this topic. it's not a hi-po class--just introductory. we do get to tear down an engine and put it back together though. it's definitely fun and i'm learning a lot.
thanks,
kbosland
Thanks for all the good info you've provided. I'm sure emeightch is gaining some good feedback as am I. bashcraft--you said you broke one. can you give a little more detail? was it abusive or in a race application? the reason i'm so interested is b/c i too have the chance to buy a 400 4-bolt and am interested in building a 406 or big inch sbc. also, i am currently taking an engines class at my community college and have been talking to the instructor about this topic. it's not a hi-po class--just introductory. we do get to tear down an engine and put it back together though. it's definitely fun and i'm learning a lot.
thanks,
kbosland
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,838
Likes: 10
From: Austin TX
If it were me, I'd stick to a 406 config,..grinding is required for stroking and grinding will weaken an already stressed design. Recall,..no 400's were ever used as a performance engine from Chevy,..simply a high torque, low RPM mill designed to get mom's station-wagon rolling (literally!).
If more cubes are desired than 406, I'd go afternarket for a block.
My opinion and good luck!
If more cubes are desired than 406, I'd go afternarket for a block.
My opinion and good luck!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,506
Likes: 139
From: Butler Pa
Originally Posted by kbosland
Gang,
bashcraft--you said you broke one. can you give a little more detail? was it abusive or in a race application?
bashcraft--you said you broke one. can you give a little more detail? was it abusive or in a race application?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,672
Likes: 1
From: New Cumberland PA
Originally Posted by 73, Dark Blue 454
Recall,..no 400's were ever used as a performance engine from Chevy,..simply a high torque, low RPM mill designed to get mom's station-wagon rolling (literally!).
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Shelby Twp MI
Hmmm...
So where would I get the biggest bang for my buck? 350 Stroked to 383, 406 or 400 stroked to 430 something?
Also, would the same 2-bolt vs 4-bolt philosophy be the same for a 350 block? Should I just stroker the 2-bolt 350 I have?
So where would I get the biggest bang for my buck? 350 Stroked to 383, 406 or 400 stroked to 430 something?
Also, would the same 2-bolt vs 4-bolt philosophy be the same for a 350 block? Should I just stroker the 2-bolt 350 I have?
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
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From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
There is no debating, 406ci is the best way to go, off the shelf components and no clearancing the block, no brainer.
Take a look at my video, a 406ci at 6500RPM, yeehaaaawwww
Take a look at my video, a 406ci at 6500RPM, yeehaaaawwww
Last edited by MotorHead; Aug 14, 2006 at 01:32 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
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From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Originally Posted by Emeightch
Also, would the same 2-bolt vs 4-bolt philosophy be the same for a 350 block? Should I just stroker the 2-bolt 350 I have?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,838
Likes: 10
From: Austin TX
Originally Posted by mandm1200
I'm not certain but I believe when Chevy was using the 400 there were no performance engines. They were low performance, smog engines and the 400 was a way to increase the torque of the small block.
The General never put a big solid-lift cam with 11:1 compression in a SB-400 then dropped it in a Camaro or a Vette with a 4-speed and 3.73's out back. The failure rate would have exceeded tolerances. Instead the General dropped 350's and BB's in their performance Chevy's because they knew they could take the abuse. Ask yourself, why did Chevy put BB 396's (which actually displaced 402ci) in early 70's Camaros instead of their new SB400? Why didn't the Vette ever get one of these mills with a nice cam and some compression? The reason?,..potential failure rates and warranty costs.
This coming from a guy who has a 406 in a 69 Camaro,..with a 270H, AFR-195's, 10:1, RPM and a Q-jet with 3.73's and an M-20. Damn good motor,..pulls hard to 6000. Just me, but I wouldn't build a stock 400 block past 500 HP.
My opinion.