Is there any down-side to adding a bottle of EOS with every oil change? (EOS = Engine Oil Supplement, GM's 16oz. break-in lube). I have no desire to run Shell's Rotella 15w-40 in my gasoline engines and racing oils don't have derergents and dispersants needed for street engines.

Input welcome,
Wes

 

Only the few extra dollars it costs you. The additives will help wtih gasket life and hold back engine wear.

 

I wouldn't do the full bottle every time. I read somewhere about something building up in the engine. What's wrong with straight Rotella?

 

Maybe a half bottle? I used to add Marvel.

 

No Rotella for me,..I'm not putting something formulated for diesel engines in my Vette. Gasoline combustion is filthy business,..diesel not as bad. Gasoline engines would need a different level of detergents and dispersants. I'll yield to the chemistry profession here. Plus, 15w-40 doesn't meet my needs,..40w is pretty heavy stuff and would increase mileage and decrease HP,..plus heavy oils are hard on rings and distributor/cam gears.

But there might something to the zinc/ZDDP arguement,..that flat-tap cams need it in higher quantities than are found in off-the-shelf oils.

Looking for an additive,..EOS was the first thing I thought of.

Any advice?

 

You can bet your last dime that flat-tap motors need a wear package in oil. Rotella T 15W-40 IS ... repeat IS formulated for use in BOTH GAS & diesel ... read the cert/specs on bottle/jug ... if not convinced ... go to API site & Xref it. MANY local racers & pro builders are running R 15-40 ... none want to give up a single hp due to viscosity ... nor lose reliability. Suggest your apprehensions are misdirected. On the other hand ... if you're talking about some VERY late model gas engine ... then a 5-30 oil is probably called for and one that has little or no zinc/phosphorous. If you wish to go the constant-EOS route ... suggest 1/4 bottle per change.

 

I use 10W-30 Castrol with a bottle (4 oz.) of this to get added zinc and phosphorous.

 

your thoughts that the CI-4 deisel oils are only for diesel motors is completely wrong.
Do research on it and a search in the C1/C2 forum especially for posts under SWCDuke and learn more before you disregard the diesel oils. Duke is an engine systems engineer so he knows what he is talking about.
Oil is oil and what makes one oil different from another is the additive and detergent packages added to it and it's the package in the CI-4 diesel oils that is most appropiate for a vintage motor.
If you don't want 15w-40 than find it in 10W-30 - it's available.
your concerns are unfounded.

 

I am also looking for an additive to use in my families fleet, as well as my vette. I read an article in Corvette Fever over 10 yrs ago about Mobil 1 Synthetic. They ran 2 engines side by side 24 hrs a day for 1 month, 1 synthetic, 1 dino. Then they tore them down and compared internal parts. It was amazing, especially the cams, syn. showed no sign of wear compared to noticable wear with the dino. I haven't used dino since, not even in my lawn mowers. But I may be Hyper careful in this area and am concerned about lack of zinc in the new oils. I'm not interested in Rotella since it is not Syn. I have Valvoline Syntech additive in my Vette now since Forum members have said in the past that it has Zinc in it, but I had to special order it. Parts stores just don't carry it in my area, so I'm looking for an alternative.

 

And diesel engines run much dirtier than gas. My diesel truck can run a couple hundred miles after an oil change and the oil is black. The higher comp pushes more blowby and combustion byproducts past the rings hence the heavier additive package. Seems like a high compression engine could use the extra detergents and protection offered in rotella. A flat tappet cam with higher spring pressures and valve lash also needs better protection from wear. The only reason the additive package was reduced and modified in the newer oils were emission mandates required by the EPA. Diesel engines don't have to meet these standards. Rotella is recommended by the majority of people on this forum that have the knowledge to back up that decision. Listen to them.

 

I was under the impression that EOS (used long term i.e. more that break-in) would eventually "collect" in your oil filter and may restrict oil flow. Is this information correct?

 

Valvoline still offers a high zinc content oil. It has to be ordered thru NAPA. It is not there VR1. If you go to Valvolines webb site look under conventional racing oil, thier info even says contains high amounts of zinc. Since it does not pass the EPA regulations it will state "for off road use only" on the product and will not be stocked outfront on open shelves to the public. The part number for quarts of 10W30 is VV850, the bad news is, it was over $5.00 a qt. the last time I checked.

 

BTW ... Rotella T is also available as a full synthetic at about twice $.

Everything is dose-dependant ... including EOS ... it's got lotsa sulphur/zinc/phosphorous/etc as a wear package. If you stuff lotsa big molecules into an oil filter (or lotsa pharmas into a liver) ... it'll clog. Hence 1/4 bottle EOS per O&F change ... if you can't / won't get your wear package fix elsewhere.

 

here:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...hlight=Rotella

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...hlight=Rotella

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...hlight=Rotella


EDIT: opps, I JUST noticed that when I cut and pasted the threads from my search that only one particular was getting pasted. I screwed up. There were a couple of other threads that were very informative. I accidently pasted the same thread 3 times rather than 3 different threads as I intended.

You can find them yourself if you do a search in the C1/C2 section under Rotella and under the user name of SWCDuke

 

I broke my engine in with GM's EOS. I used 1/2 a bottle with the next oil change and will use the other 1/2 with the next oil change. After that I plan on going to synthetic oil. On the back of the EOS bottle it states to use as a break in additive and not as an oil additive. I have no idea as to why they do not recommend it as an oil additive. Perhaps its bad for the engine or perhaps it's not enviormentally safe. Unless you are able to get insider information from GM, no one will really know the true reason.

All engine oils are not the same. I'm not a fan of using diesel or racing oil. Those oils are designed differently than for a gas engine driven as a street car. It seems the oil companies have forgotten about the older cars. It sure would be nice if at least one on the oil companies formulated an oil for the older cars even if it did not meet the current oil guidelines on being enviormentally safe. Most of these classic cars are not driven every day and the additives needed should not be a major concern.

 

that's basically incorrect. Oil is Oil, period! the difference between them is the additive package and by far the best additive package available for the older vintage motors is the CI-4 diesel oil.
The reason that the same additoves and detergents were removed from 'standard" oils was because with extended use it tends to have adverse affects on the catalatic converter. Since the vast majority of our older cars are not daily drivers and they typically get limited milage put on them yearly the advantage of the additive package in the diesel oils far exceeds any deterimental affect it may have on the CC (if your have a car that even has a CC).
The oil itself is not designed differently, only the additive package is different between "diesel oil", "racing oil", or "automobile oil".
The other differences other than the additive package is marketing hype and BS.
Whether you drive your older car 100 miles a year or 5000 miles a year the additive package IS important. In fact, it's probably the most important aspect of choosing the best oil to use in your motor

 

i have 350,000 on my van and have nothing more than change the oil every 3000 miles,, i used to use one of those additives(slick 50) in a car and one day noticed a lower end ticking,,,,the babbit was worn off the bearings,,teflon yea rignt

 

I don't buy the "oil is oil" arguement.

Yes additives are the difference, and additves to clean and disperse diesel "soot" (yes, this what Rotella calls diesel combustion byproduct on their container) would be different than the detergents and dispersants needed to deal with gasoline combustion byproduct.

And yes, the Rotella container says the product is ok for gasoline engines but I suppose XYZ reprocessed oil is ok too.

Here is a bit of news though. Zinc and other additives were reduced from automotive oils due to incompatibity with emission systems, i.e., cataytic converters. Guess what. Starting on 2007 models, diesel engines will be required to run cats among other EPA goodies. And, I'm guessing Rotella and the others will drop the zinc content if they haven't already.

If Rotella works for you, that's great. But in my mind, modern chemistry and Big Oil's R&D depts have advanced way past "oil is oil".

So back to the original question. I'll be running motor oil formualted for gasoline engines. Is there an additive (if not EOS) that would replace our lost zinc?...and what dosage is needed?

Thanks,
Wes

 

Maybe if you use synthetics, you don't have to worry about the additives at all. A lot of different theories and testimonials floating around about all oils.

I used Mobil 1 in a tow vehicle that was pwered by a flat tappet 350. Sold it at over 225,000 miles on it and did nothing mechanically to the engine ever. Every 4000 miles, just the filter was changed with a Pure One filter and a new qt of mobile was added. Dipstick always looked clean.

I'm not pushing any type of oil, but I certainly didn't need any type of additive.

If your really worried, the oil can be tested and any metal wear will show up in the report.

 

valvoline offers a different blend for any application you can imagine....i use the VR1 racing oil with the detergent and other additive package in it and pay $3 a qt for it....go to there website, there are almost too many choices