Need help! Electrical Problem Phase 2
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
Originally Posted by shafrs3
I'm just guessing here but the majority of the horn circuit is probably in the engine compartment and actuated from a ground provided from the horn button; when the button is depressed it provides the ground to operate the horn relay. The alarm system is just another source for that ground. If the steering column gets it's ground from the "instrument panal ground" and that ground is open it would explain his problem with the horn, and probably everything else.
Durango-you could be right-I could fill a book on this alarm system and what happens to it- and what it does to other things-when its not wired correct.
Last edited by ...Roger...; Sep 19, 2006 at 02:18 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by DWncchs
Durango-you could be right-I could fill a book on this alarm system and what happens to it- and what it does to other things-when its not wired correct.
Considering all the threads full of problems related to these alarms, someone with intimate knowledge of it all should write a paper that can be cited whenever soemone needs a source.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by garycr14
Thanks for your insights! I believe I'll have some time this evening to work on the car. I'll post my findings, if any! Thanks.
Any findings to post? With more clues or things you rule out we can come up with different options or places to look.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Newark CA
Originally Posted by Durango_boy
Any findings to post? With more clues or things you rule out we can come up with different options or places to look.
The rear window defroster now works, which had not worked since I had purchased the car.
The problems I have now are:
1) The horn and alarm do not work.
2) The engine does not idle correctly, once it warms up it shoots up to 2000 rpm, after in runs for abut 1/2 hour it will drop back down. The choke light is always eluminated.
3) The electric seat does not function.
At least the car is drivable, but with the seat in the wrong position, and the choke always engaged (I think), it is not as much fun as normal.
I still am wondering why all of this stuff went astray at the same time?
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
I don't know enough about #1 to speak of it yet, as it's a system I am not very familiar with.
#2 - Is your choke a manual choke or an electric choke? It seems that whatever signal your car gets from the engine or exhaust to adjust choke is not working. Maybe a censor or something is failing. If it's a manual choke, check to make sure it adjusts as the engine warms up.
#3 - Pull the seat out. Test the plug at the seat to make sure it has power and ground. Then, use a car battery and testt eh seat motors to make sure they work. Then double check it's fuse again, sicne they can appear good and still be blown. Always better to replace with a enw one just to be sure. If the fuse is good, and the motor works, then it falls back ont he wiring to the seat. You should have 12V constant to the seat, if at elast with the ign on. If you have NO 12V ever, trace the wire and see where it goes. If nothing else, run your own power wire to the motor to make it adjustable until you can find the real problem.
#2 - Is your choke a manual choke or an electric choke? It seems that whatever signal your car gets from the engine or exhaust to adjust choke is not working. Maybe a censor or something is failing. If it's a manual choke, check to make sure it adjusts as the engine warms up.
#3 - Pull the seat out. Test the plug at the seat to make sure it has power and ground. Then, use a car battery and testt eh seat motors to make sure they work. Then double check it's fuse again, sicne they can appear good and still be blown. Always better to replace with a enw one just to be sure. If the fuse is good, and the motor works, then it falls back ont he wiring to the seat. You should have 12V constant to the seat, if at elast with the ign on. If you have NO 12V ever, trace the wire and see where it goes. If nothing else, run your own power wire to the motor to make it adjustable until you can find the real problem.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Newark CA
Originally Posted by Durango_boy
I don't know enough about #1 to speak of it yet, as it's a system I am not very familiar with.
#2 - Is your choke a manual choke or an electric choke? It seems that whatever signal your car gets from the engine or exhaust to adjust choke is not working. Maybe a censor or something is failing. If it's a manual choke, check to make sure it adjusts as the engine warms up.
#3 - Pull the seat out. Test the plug at the seat to make sure it has power and ground. Then, use a car battery and testt eh seat motors to make sure they work. Then double check it's fuse again, sicne they can appear good and still be blown. Always better to replace with a enw one just to be sure. If the fuse is good, and the motor works, then it falls back ont he wiring to the seat. You should have 12V constant to the seat, if at elast with the ign on. If you have NO 12V ever, trace the wire and see where it goes. If nothing else, run your own power wire to the motor to make it adjustable until you can find the real problem.
#2 - Is your choke a manual choke or an electric choke? It seems that whatever signal your car gets from the engine or exhaust to adjust choke is not working. Maybe a censor or something is failing. If it's a manual choke, check to make sure it adjusts as the engine warms up.
#3 - Pull the seat out. Test the plug at the seat to make sure it has power and ground. Then, use a car battery and testt eh seat motors to make sure they work. Then double check it's fuse again, sicne they can appear good and still be blown. Always better to replace with a enw one just to be sure. If the fuse is good, and the motor works, then it falls back ont he wiring to the seat. You should have 12V constant to the seat, if at elast with the ign on. If you have NO 12V ever, trace the wire and see where it goes. If nothing else, run your own power wire to the motor to make it adjustable until you can find the real problem.
The problem with checking the fuse is I am not sure which fuse operates the seat. None are labled for it. I have replaced most of the fuses, but I can easily replace them all. Just have to go buy one of those large metal cased fuses, that is what is marked pwr accy, but that is the only accesory that is not functioning, and the fuse did check out ok with the continuity check.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by garycr14
It is an electric choke.
The problem with checking the fuse is I am not sure which fuse operates the seat. None are labled for it. I have replaced most of the fuses, but I can easily replace them all. Just have to go buy one of those large metal cased fuses, that is what is marked pwr accy, but that is the only accesory that is not functioning, and the fuse did check out ok with the continuity check.
The problem with checking the fuse is I am not sure which fuse operates the seat. None are labled for it. I have replaced most of the fuses, but I can easily replace them all. Just have to go buy one of those large metal cased fuses, that is what is marked pwr accy, but that is the only accesory that is not functioning, and the fuse did check out ok with the continuity check.
Hmm...okay, well do some checking on that seat wire, and fuses. I'm just throwing out ideas based on what I've found to be wrong before. A blown fuse that looked great.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,192
Likes: 27
From: Boca Raton Florida
If the choke light is on, it means that either the alternator has a bad diode trio, disconnect the plug on the side and it should go out. If that doesn't do it,
The Choke fuse may be bad, it is the top fuse on the right, 20 amp, labled C/H.
The choke light gets power all the time from the gauge fuse, 20 amp center left, and a ground from either a bad alternator, or thru the chike relay and the choke heater. If the choke heater fuse opens, it drops out the choke relay and the NC contact gives the light a ground thru the choke heater.
The Choke fuse may be bad, it is the top fuse on the right, 20 amp, labled C/H.
The choke light gets power all the time from the gauge fuse, 20 amp center left, and a ground from either a bad alternator, or thru the chike relay and the choke heater. If the choke heater fuse opens, it drops out the choke relay and the NC contact gives the light a ground thru the choke heater.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,192
Likes: 27
From: Boca Raton Florida
CTSY Clk fuse 2oA bottom center runs the horns thru the horn relay. It is under the hood I think. There is a black wire connecting the horn button to the relay to give it a ground. Jump 12v to the dk green wire on the relay and see if the horns work, if yes, then jump the black wire to ground, relay shoukd pickup and operate horns. Or wire on relay is hot allthe time
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Newark CA
Originally Posted by SIXFOOTER
Seats powered from window 35 amp breaker, second row from top of fuse panel, hot at all times. Seat motors get power and ground thru the seat switch.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Newark CA
Originally Posted by SIXFOOTER
If the choke light is on, it means that either the alternator has a bad diode trio, disconnect the plug on the side and it should go out. If that doesn't do it,
The Choke fuse may be bad, it is the top fuse on the right, 20 amp, labled C/H.
The choke light gets power all the time from the gauge fuse, 20 amp center left, and a ground from either a bad alternator, or thru the chike relay and the choke heater. If the choke heater fuse opens, it drops out the choke relay and the NC contact gives the light a ground thru the choke heater.
The Choke fuse may be bad, it is the top fuse on the right, 20 amp, labled C/H.
The choke light gets power all the time from the gauge fuse, 20 amp center left, and a ground from either a bad alternator, or thru the chike relay and the choke heater. If the choke heater fuse opens, it drops out the choke relay and the NC contact gives the light a ground thru the choke heater.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Newark CA
Originally Posted by SIXFOOTER
CTSY Clk fuse 2oA bottom center runs the horns thru the horn relay. It is under the hood I think. There is a black wire connecting the horn button to the relay to give it a ground. Jump 12v to the dk green wire on the relay and see if the horns work, if yes, then jump the black wire to ground, relay shoukd pickup and operate horns. Or wire on relay is hot allthe time
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by BrothersVette
the horn has one relay in the box behind the pass seat
I had dash lights go out it was the grounded
I had dash lights go out it was the grounded
What year did they start putting them back there?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 43
From: Eastern US XX
Originally Posted by BrothersVette
the horn has one relay in the box behind the pass seat
The normal (front) horn relay is under the hood
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,323
Likes: 142
From: Green Valley Arizona
Experience at an '81 wiring.
Originally Posted by SIXFOOTER
Seats powered from window 35 amp breaker, second row from top of fuse panel, hot at all times. Seat motors get power and ground thru the seat switch.
Saves you from pulling the seat if there is no power there.
The power seat harness gets power from under the center console, actually under the parking brake cover where it plugs into another connector that is part of a main wiring harness.
I added a power seat to my 81 so that is how I know this circuit.
Coming off the positive battery cable at the starter are two fuseable links. One of these links splits into two; one goes to the single wire output terminal of the alternator, the other goes to the two terminal connector that plugs into the alternator.
The other one goes to the headlight switch and then onto the gauges and so on.
Good luck
