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C3 rear Turbos

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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 02:22 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Kalway
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Speaking of overhauling ....did you see the ricer job on the 57 Corvette?

If somebody wrecked my car like they did to that 1957 I would hurt them very badly....
Took a beautiful car and made it look like a punked out POS.
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 02:28 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Bob Onit
Speaking of overhauling ....did you see the ricer job on the 57 Corvette?

If somebody wrecked my car like they did to that 1957 I would hurt them very badly....
Took a beautiful car and made it look like a punked out POS.
Except for the wheels, it looked pretty non-rice to me...and the wheels, IMHO, are more hot rod than rice. You know what they say about opinions...
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 02:46 AM
  #23  
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What type of HP gains would you expect?
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by RPOZ4Z
look up forum member CajunDude in the C5 section.
He has rear mounted turbos, they basically replaced the mufflers with the turbos, and plumbed the intake back up front.

his works great!
It may work great, but it's not as efficient as it could be. All that heat that the pipes radiate before reaching the muffler area is lost, and could be used to drive the turbo. My old Talon had the turbo at the end of a very short exhaust manifold, about 6" from the ehaust ports on the head. If you could clearance things to mount the turbos to the ram's horn manifolds, you'd have a really efficient, kick-*** setup.
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 04:16 AM
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...if it's so good, why do none of the "real" tuners do it (lingenfelter, callaway.....) because they KNOW that to maximize the efficiency they need to put it up front. Look at Nelson Racing engines, they have a lot of experience with turbos..you won't see a rear mounted system there.
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 08:19 AM
  #26  
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I'm not into turbos, so I don't know.
all I do know is that he did one hell of a burnout and made some deep a$$ grooves in the pavement at the cruise in!
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 08:20 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by shafrs3
I'm confused here, did you do this or is this from someone else's car?
Yes it's my car. As I said, I was thinking of going this route a couple of years ago before I decided to go to school instead.

I was showing how simple it is too mount the turbo and what it would look like. The only thing needed was a bracket to mount it to the rear differential which in this case the IRS is a benefit because of it being in a fixed position. The plumbing would also be fairly simple. I just finished puttin my engine together so I decided to enjoy what I built before tearing it apart and having another set of custom pistons made
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 08:21 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by RPOZ4Z
I'm not into turbos, so I don't know.
all I do know is that he did one hell of a burnout and made some deep a$$ grooves in the pavement at the cruise in!
Thats because no one told him it won't work before the burnout
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 09:06 AM
  #29  
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Default Rear Turbos

This forum is great. I was thinking about the rear mounts and based on all of the feedback. I think I will go with a front mount when I am ready. I thank you all for the feedback. I really learn a lot from you people. Thanks
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 12:28 PM
  #30  
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I can't understand why hot air is better for a turbo than cool air. Hot air is less dense than cold air. Colder air going into the combustion chamber creates more HP than heated air. It would seem than the air being cooler before it reaches the rear turbo would be denser and provide more force to turn the turbo. After all, it is just a propeller of sorts pushing cooler air back to the engine. A cooler turbo will last longer than one subjected to the extreme heat of the engine just after combustion. Beside a little longer lag and having the air cleaner in a less than desirable location, in theory, it is a better design. Now what are the reason that contradict how I am thinking; and please understand I do not use a turbo. In fact, I would much rather use a supercharger instead.
Bernie
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 02:39 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by BerniesVette
I can't understand why hot air is better for a turbo than cool air. Hot air is less dense than cold air. Colder air going into the combustion chamber creates more HP than heated air. It would seem than the air being cooler before it reaches the rear turbo would be denser and provide more force to turn the turbo. After all, it is just a propeller of sorts pushing cooler air back to the engine. A cooler turbo will last longer than one subjected to the extreme heat of the engine just after combustion. Beside a little longer lag and having the air cleaner in a less than desirable location, in theory, it is a better design. Now what are the reason that contradict how I am thinking; and please understand I do not use a turbo. In fact, I would much rather use a supercharger instead.
Bernie
Turbos work on the temperature/pressure differential across the turbine wheel. Here are some good articles on turbocharger theory from my Talon days: http://www.dsm.org/menu.epl?item=363

Why would you rather have a supercharger? Superchargers are driven off of the crank, and therefore use power to make power. Turbos use a waste product (heat) to make power. It's the closest thing to a free lunch you'll ever find.

Originally Posted by http://www.dsm.org/archives/1997/06/19970618.txt/28.html
It is a common misconception that the exhaust turbine half of a turbo is driven purely by the kinetic energy of the exhaust smacking into it (like holding a kid's tow pinwheel behind your tailpipe) While the kinetic energy of the exhaust flow does contribute to the work performed by the turbo, the vast majority of the energy transfered comes from a different source.

Keep in mind the relationship between heat, volume, and pressure when we talk about gasses. High heat, high pressure, and low volume are all high energy states, low heat, low pressure, and large volumes are low energy states.

So our exhaust pulse exits the cylinder at high temperature and high pressure. It gets merged with other exhaust pulses, and enters the turbine inlet - a very small space. At this point, we have very high pressure and very high heat, so our gas has a very high energy level. As it passes through the diffuser and into the turbine housing, it moves from a small space into a large one. Accordingly, it expands, cools, slows down, and dumps all that energy - into the turbine that we've so
cleverly positioned in tho housing so that as the gas expands, it pushes against the turbine blades, causing it to rotate. Presto! We've just recovered some energy from the heat of the exhaust, that otherwise would have been lost.

This is a measureable effect: Stick an EGT upstream and downstream of the turbo, and you see a tremendous difference in temperature.

So, in real world terms, what does this tell us?

All else being equal, _The amount of work that can be done across an exhaust turbine is determined by the pressure differential at the inlet and outlet_ (in english, raise the turbo inlet pressure, lower the outlet pressure, or both, and you make more power) Pressure is heat, heat is pressure.

Raising the inlet pressure is possible, but tough. Lowering the outlet pressure is easy - just bolt on a bigger, free flowing exhaust. I've seen a couple of posts from people who added aftermarket exhausts, who report "my turbo spools up faster now" Well, that's because by lowering the outlet pressure, you increased the pressure differential, and now the exhaust gas can expand more, and do more work. That increased work pushes harder on your turbo, and it spools up faster. You should also see less boost drop at redline, because if an exhaust system is flow-limited, once you pass the flow limit of the system, any additional gasses you try and force through it only raise the outlet pressure. Higher outlet pressure, lower pressure differential, less work, less boost.
Damn...now I'm thinking about adding small turbos to each side of my exhaust...

Last edited by I'm Batman; Sep 22, 2006 at 02:43 PM.
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 02:56 PM
  #32  
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Here is my car domain page with a few pics. Its hard to tell very much about it from the pics and being as its a long ways from the finished product there are wires and hoses zip tied out of the way which clutters things up even more. This sumer has sucked as I havent had time to drive it much let alone work on it.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2143948
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 03:20 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
I thought turbos would like hot gases. Having the turbo's so far back would contribute to turbo lag, cool running turbos and a long long intake trac.
Norval, I would normally agree but when they did the road test, they said there was no such additional lag. Said it was a real sweet conversion.
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 03:37 PM
  #34  
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REAd above, having no lag says nothing about efficiency, it just says they properly selected a turbine for the application, so if you use a smaller turbo it will spool up fine in the back, it does not mean it's as efficient as a front mount. In the front where the gas is much hotter you could have a larger one spool up just fine, stick that in the back and it'll most likely fall flat on it's face.
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 05:27 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by SmokedTires
Hah, talk about a WTF! from the people behind you. That's awsome
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 06:50 PM
  #36  
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Rear mount may not be optimal, but how much heat are you utilizing without any turbo?

Also, why couldn't the exhaust pipe be wrapped like a header to help retain the heat?

Here is an option for the scavenge pump.

http://www.turbowerx.com/page1/page2...FTl6GgodEz24Iw
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 07:51 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo

Quieter wastegates, especially if vented to atmosphere.


Wastegates vent to the atmosphere? THAT'S a BLOW OFF VALVE dummies, wastegates reroute energy rich (well poor in their case) exhaust gas past the turbine, robbing the turbine from it's energy and therefore slowing it down.
I agree with you overall and i strongly dislike the STS systems.. I feel they are a half assed approach to turbo'ing a car. I do however have to point out a mistake. External wastegates can, and often times are vented to the atmosphere. I have a few years experience around turbo's myself, as I know you do. Here is a pic of one such setup.

pic from www.gruppe-s.com
Now true, this one is back to the exhaust so its not straight to the atmosphere but some people dont weld that pipe back into the exhaust just dump it out.. Now the point i dont get is they say it is quiet. Ive seen a vr4 and an STi running this setup and the one thing it isnt is quiet. When the wastegate opens up it sounds like a 747 is taking off.

Couldnt find a better pic at the moment but here is a pic takin from www.ttmtechnical.com


That is a true atmosphere dump.

Mike

Last edited by PolishMike; Sep 22, 2006 at 07:55 PM.
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 08:26 PM
  #38  
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A lot of people dis STS, but the fact is: nobody here has a Turbo system designed, manufactured and sold to the public with a warranty. While everbody is dumping on them, they are moving forward with new ideas and putting out product to satisfied custoners. They were thinking "outside the box". New technology always brings out the nay sayers.

There is nothing wrong with taking the time to modify a Corvette to add turbo chargers. My hat is off to those who have done it. But someone offering a one day installation! Don't you wish you had thaught of that? Well they did and they are making it work! The proof is on the street.
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 08:30 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by jpatrick636
A lot of people dis STS, but the fact is: nobody here has a Turbo system designed, manufactured and sold to the public with a warranty. While everbody is dumping on them, they are moving forward with new ideas and putting out product to satisfied custoners. They were thinking "outside the box". New technology always brings out the nay sayers.

There is nothing wrong with taking the time to modify a Corvette to add turbo chargers. My hat is off to those who have done it. But someone offering a one day installation! Don't you wish you had thaught of that? Well they did and they are making it work! The proof is on the street.
I see plenty of bad products that are sold with warranties. Not that I'm saying that STS has a bad product - their design simply isn't as efficient as it could be. It was designed for ease of installation, not turbo efficiency.
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Old Sep 22, 2006 | 08:40 PM
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We installed one of these on a late model Transam.The install was done in a days time.It was a nice kit and the car sounded awesome and went like stink!!!I am sure a front mounted turbo is better, but this is surely a nice option.The kit was lacking larger injectors,that the owner found out he needed.The install was done by my lead tech with lots of years experience in a fully equiped shop
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