I have the cheap Mallory kit in my 70 LS5. Since mid 80's. About 20+ years. Drove it as a daily driver this past November to June and had no problems with it.

Original reason for the switch was to eliminate the mechanical dist as a "variable" in troubleshooting.. cam wear, bearing wear, points bounce & wear, condensor intermittant shorting etc.

Wasn't looking for a performance gain. Since I installed the Mallory 20+ years ago, I have not had to re-visit the distributor. It's been 100% reliable and maintenance free.

I have the original points dist for my C2. It needs the usual TLC to keep it on track. Since I can handle the work myself, it's no big deal money-wise. The points work fine except for the TLC requirement. Time increases in value as you get older.

The electronic conversion can give you maintenance free operation as long as you do not get a "lemon" unit.

Electronic components are manufactured using statistics just like any other commodity... e.g.- light bulbs... they can't/don't test every one. The chips can be at the bad edge of the distribution or at the reliable end. Luck of the draw, regardless of which brand you buy.

The condensor in a points distributor is the same... it can be bad right out of the box.

Edit: when you install a new set of points or adjust dwell, you also need to check/reset the base timing.

 

yeah, I'd love to see proof of that too - seperate from simply their marketing statements.
how do they figure 3 times more enerfy when all they are doing is swapping a switch?
Now, if you installed one of their coils that has more voltage than the stock coil I'd see their point but that not what i'm comparing against. most people simply install the conversion kit and still utilize the stock coil in their car.
You are a mechanic by trade if i'm not mistaken from previous posts so maybe you can tell me how they are going to get more voltage out of a simple switch conversion and using the same coil??

well, it's pointless really, we all have out opinions on this. I do understand some people preferring the less maintaince and not worrying about once a year point changes and dwell adjustments. I personally just don't mind the $10-$12/yr for the new points and 10-15 minutes it takes once a year to change points and readjust dwell. It's not costly enough in money or time for me to justify $120-$160 for a conversion kit and I like knowing that in the unlikely rare chance that my points failed on me that I can grab the spare set in the back of the car and be driving again in a few minutes rather than being stranded and calling for a flatbed.
As I said, we all have our preferences and we all should do what makes us happy

 

Barry the term they use is "current fall time" whatever that is.That is why they say it gives twice as much voltage at the plug.Sounds like one of those complicated play on words claims.Maybe 69427 will chime in I know he can shed some light on the subject.

 

DW
current fall time??!!
sounds like marketing confusion just to sell a product. What i DO know is that even John Hinckley, who was a GM engineer in the corvette division back in the '60 and 70's has stated many times over in the C1/c2 forum that there is NO additional voltage or higher spark activity because of an electronic conversion kit - it's simply a different type of switch. From an electro-magneto switch (points) to an electronic switch. All either switch is doing is passing/stopping the voltage for the spark. I can see a larger capacity coil producing a larger voltage and therefore larger spark for faster starting but I just can't imagine how a different ytpe of switch can produce more spark activity. That's my point.

Now, I realize at this point I'm simply beating a dead horse but I might as well finish explaining my though processes on points VS conversion kits because after this I'm so sick of the topic I very well may never respond on this subject again.......
consider the motors that points distributors came in and than consider the motors that HEI distributors came installed in from the factory. The very reason GM developed the HEI distributor was because of emisions reasons. To lower emissions, as you are fully aware, they went to ported vacuum advance control and they severly retarded the initial timing levels. Those two things (along with the A.I.R systems that also required a 195º t-stat for higher operating temps) were a crude but somewhat effective measure to reduce HC levels. The problem was that with less advance at idle (ported vacuum) and lower retarded initial timing, they needed a more powerful spark for proper combustion. It was this need for a more powerful spark that lead to the HEI distributor. it wasn't for performance, it was for simple need of proper combustion because of how they had to configure and run the motors for lower emission levels.
Now, take a pre-HEI motor that still is stock or fairly close to stock that is running a points distributor. it was designed to operate on a points system and the voltage level for spark activity that a standard coil produces. As long as the timing is correct, and your idle fuel/air mixture adjustment on the carb is correct, you have a very combustible mixture ready to ignite in the cylinders - believe me, it won't take much spark at all to fire that mixture off!! Even if you did increase the voltage with a higher output coil such as upgrading to a HEI distributor with 3 or 4 times the voltage of a regulat coil where is the true advantage? you already have plenty of spark to ignite the mixture and produce combustion anyway? And that's assuming you upgrade to a HEI system so I think you would see very little to no real performance gain anyway.
Now lets forget upgrading from points to HEI, let think about points to conversion kits where there is no increase in spark voltage (regardless of their marketing hype I still don't buy any possible voltage increase simply by adding a conversion kit to replace a set of points). Again, there is no performance gain because no increase in spark so the only benefit is to save a once a year swap of points and resetting dwell. As I mentioned previously, this is all assuming the points distributor is in good condition and within endplay and sideplay tolerances. If it's not within proper tolerances than you most liely will see a bit of improvement in the geveral running of the car because you would have elimanated dwell flucuation from the points casused by the movement of the main shaft but if that's the case you would see the same improvement by just rebuilding the distributor.

there, that is my thought processes on why i personally don't see any advantage to the conversion kits.
People are more than free to agree or disagree and they are welcome to spend their money as they like and do what they want to their own cars but at least if they have read this thread perhaps they can now think about the information supplied and make a better, more informed decision before they spend their money so they know if it's really what they want to do and why or why not.

now, I've gone over this so much in the last year that i'm probably not going to touch this topic again for quite a long time if at all.
if they want the info they can do a search after this
And I also have no doubt that many people reading this post will be glad to hear i'm going to shut up about it also

 

Barry:

Just for the fun of it you should read some of Smokey Yunick's books.(don't remember which one)

He worked closely with Duntov back in the eaarly and mid 60's.

Back then he summized that the points ignition engine electrical system was responsible for causing high rpm misfires and blowing engines at Daytona for no apparant reason.

He speculated in the mid 60's that the ideal spark ignition system would be a coil at the spark plug for each cylinder, but couldn't get Duntov develop it further.

Low and behold many years later Mercedes picked up the ball on this in their production cars and many years after that eventually, so did Corvette.
It's all that inovative tech that gives us the new 505hp vette.

Since your interested in ignition, I'm sure you would enjoy the books.

 

Great points (Pun intended) Barry. Let us not forget that on all solid-lifter big-blocks and LT-1 engines you were required to have the K-66 electronic ignition instead of points. G.M. must have felt the points reliability at 6,500 rpm's was going to be a problem. Just a thought.

 

and have some patience, or the "locals" really WON'T like it. If you can't handle that, this might not be the place for you. Some questions require more specialized responses than others, and therefore are replied to by a smaller pool of posters. You went on this rant 59 minutes after the first post. That's not enough time to get a response, especially in the early evening. Noobs...

Anyway, in response to the original post - if you want to keep the original tachometer, the tach drive HEI is a good choice. jackson posted a link in another thread to an outfit that is selling them for $190.

And Barry, we get it - you think this is still 1967, and that's OK. Some people like new and improved technology - like the Internet that you are posting on. HEI will produce a more complete burn than points, and that's why GM started using it - that and it's unbreakable reliability.

 

I believe you and Barry are both correct to have some skepticism about some of the manufacturers' claims. The earlier claim of 3x the energy is highly doubtful, as the energy improvement is dependent on the peak primary current (assuming the coil wasn't changed). Unless the conversion increases the dwell angle (and thereby charge time), and eliminates/reduces the ballast resistor, I don't believe there will be a significant improvement in spark energy.
Regarding (primary) current fall time, this is a legitimate item in ignition design. Theoretically, the faster you can shut off the current through the coil, the higher will be the voltage ringup in the coil. This is good if you have fouled plugs, which generally require higher gap voltages to fire. (Clean plugs will generally arc over long before the calculated voltage that the coil is supposed to reach.) A quality electronic system (I am not familiar with the Pertronix system, so I have no opinion on it) will shut off the coil current much faster than a set of points, but I will concede Barry's point that in a well tuned system, most drivers will not notice the difference between points and electronic systems. Engines with high RPM potential, high cylinder pressure, fouled plugs, or wide gap plugs will certainly benefit from the higher voltage and energy potential of a quality electronic system.

just my $.02

 

you missed my point completely!

and no I don't think it's still 1967. If there is a legitiment and proven, reliable advantage for an upgrade I'm all for it! What I DON'T see the need for is to spend money on every new, whiz-bang, 'hot-rod" part that a vendor sells when there is no real benefit for the money spent which is my opinion of the electronic conversion kits.
i did say that if someone obsolutely feels the need to upgrade their points distributor they should at least jump into an HEI unit as there can be some benefits there because of the increased spark voltage unlike the electronic conversion kits such as the Pertronix and Breakerless SE units. That's my point.

 

Barry, OK, I'm on the same page with you - although at one point above it did seem like you said the HEI won't provide any better combustion than points. The hotter spark for emissions (less unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust) was one of the driving factors behind implementing HEI in the first place.

 

Not true. In 72 the LT1 did not have the TI ignition. It used the points dist.

 

I did say that and believe it to be true in most cases. If the motor is stock or very close to stock with only very light mods I feel the points units will handle the job very well and you would very little or no real gain from even an HEI unit - on an original points distributor motor AND assuming the points distributor is in correct and proper operating condition which lets face it after 25, 30, or more years many aren't and could really use a major rebuild, but if they are in good operating condition I don't see where even an HEI is going to demonstate a significant difference because on those older stock motors the higher voltage simply wasn't needed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that points distrubutors are the answer to everything. On a later motor that came with a HEI unit and it was stock it is depending on the higher voltage of the HEI unit for proper combustion and while i may be wrong I'd guess that if you were to try dropping in a points distributor on that motor it wouldn't run so well because of the lower level of voltage compared to what the motor was designed to operate on.
On the other hand, most of us aren't running the low timing specs that these early to mid-70's motors left the factory with. We generally switch the vacuum from ported to full manifold vacuum and increase the initial timing from maybe 4-6º to around 12-14º and in many cases remove the emissions "crap" completely off so in those cases even the HEI units may be a bit of an overkill as the timing changes make it easier to ignite the mixture but hey, why step backwards - keep the HEI unit in there!

 

sure, some particular motors had special requirments - such as the L71 427/435 motors that required the K66. These were higher compression motors and had their own requirements. I'm not suggesting replacing the K66 with points.......

sheesh.... that's really taking my comments to an extreme and has no bearing on comparing points to a Pertronix or similar type conversion kit

 

I didn't mean to cause any ruffled feathers, I just wanted to point out to the few that don't know, that G.M. did offer an ignition upgrade as early as 1965. I see no reason, as you say ,to switch from points on a general base engine, other than for the sake of change.

 

I deal with 40s and 50s era GM trucks in addition to my 77 and some other odds and ends - those originally came with single points distributors. I know several knowledgable guys that have used correctly rebuilt single-points distributors, NOS distributors, vintage Mallory dual-point distributors and modified HEIs in the old inline 6s and swear that the HEI runs better. YMMV.

 

Gordonm was that all 72 LT1s-I work on a bunch of LT1s but only one 72 and it has Air Conditioning.I thought GM left it off because of the AC....Hmmm nice to know.

 

no ruffled feathers here

 

I kept my points and added an MSD box. With this set up my point merely act as a switch and should last a long time. I still get the benefit of the MSD spark, however in truth I reckon it few horsepower if any. Still I like the set up. The box is hidden and the car still "looks" stock.

carbster

 

Yes all 72 LT1s came with the point dist. The TI ignition was not offered that year.

 

I have the same thing wit ha set of HD points and a Crane HI6 box. I did notice after about 5K niles the rubbing block wore a little so I just reset the gap to about .020. The points don't wear but the rubbing block can and will wear.