Well, I am used to the helpful bunch on the C3 forum and hoped to get some answers from the C4 guys on a C4 Serpentine setup, but I got no responses. I have purchased I believe, the majority of the pieces for a C4 serpentine setup off of a 90 L98 Vette that I intend to install on my 71 SBC roadster. I have no bolts, and have not been able to locate any vendor sites with good diagrams of parts location, etc. for C4 like the good old AIM, or vendors Paragon, and Dr Rebuild catalogs. According to the C4 FAQ thread, all I need to know is in the Helms service manuals. But when I asked on the C4 forum if they had good diagrams, I might as well have been speaking Greek. Not even a yes, no, or maybe. I know that the Camaro/TA and Chevy truck setups are the more common used parts route for serepentine, from most threads I have seen here in C3 land, but has anybody gone the C4 serp route. How about some pics from your C4 (I know some of you guys go both ways) or your neighbors so I don't have to do this like a jigsaw puzzle.

Easy stuff first
1. What bolts do I need to mount the C4 brackets? (Length, diameter, thread)
2. Which bracket holes correspond to which bolt holes in the block and heads
3. Serpentine belt routing (and size(s))

Parts that I have (acquired through 3 Ebay auctions)
1. Lower Alternator/PS Pump bracket (2)
2. CS130 Alternator w/pulley
3. PS Pump w/pulley (2 pulleys)
4. Waterpump w/pulley (2 pulleys)
5. AIR pump (no bracket or Pulley)
6. Breathless Air Pump eliminator bracket and pulley
7. AC Compressor Bracket
8. AC Compressor w/clutch/Pulley (2 - 1 from a 90, 1 from an 84)
9. idler pulley
10 Crank pulley

Stuff that I need.
1. PS reservoir
2. PS hoses - going to need custom setup to run 71 Power steering (I am starting to collect pieces for a jeep box conversion, just not there yet).
3. Custom AC hoses to fit the later model Compressor up to POA valve system and complete R134A conversion

Additionally, I realize that the waterpump I got is probably only good for core value at Autozone. While I'm at it I ought to go to a 140 amp alternator, might as well go polished or chrome. Might as well put a new seal kit in the PS pump while it easy to get to. Did anybody say March polished/Billet pulleys for the crank, waterpump, and power steering? if so I heard you. My local powder coat guy will probably get to play with the lower brackets. I already have a new Dewitts Direct fit aluminum radiator to go in, and some Camaro/TA dual electric fans.

So can anyone help out with pics, diagrams, bolt specs, sources for custom hoses, correct bolts? I would appreciate it. I have researched polished waterpumps, chrome and polished alternators, as well as underdrive pulley systems but I am still open to suggestions.

And of course I will take pics to document this project and will sell off the surplus parts here on the forum as well as the good old C3 fan, fan clutch, alternator, PS Pump and A6 compressor.

Orville

 

This is indeed a '92 Camaro Serp system, but maybe these fromtal pics will help in some small way.

 

I am in the process of the c4 setup for a c3. I do have pics and part numbers from the GM parts manual. I can tell that the bolts used to mount the bracket to the motor are standard sae. However the bolts used to mount the accessories to the brackets are metric. I have the serpintine system from a 4.3 S series Blazer in my 73. With this setup there was hood clearence issues A/C compressor and Alternator sit to high. Like I see with the Camaro setup in the pictures. So I went with an aftermarket L88 hood there is a ton of room. The 4.3 uses the long pump so I had to ditch the fan and shroud and I am running dual electric fans. I am not ready to put the c4 setup in my 77 yet. So I don't have any other answers for you.

 

I have an '88 vette setup on my '72, i'ts a bolt on, couple years after the install, I switched out the gutten air pump for an idler from Breathless Perf.....been on there about 12 years now...not any difficulty....I run a 10SI alternator 108 amp rated....none of that later CS failure prone series for me, thanks....

OH, all the bolts are SAE on the threads.....heads maybe differant, but between 1/2 and 9/16, and 13-14 mm who cares??

 

Did you have any clearance issues with the front cross member from the crank pulley or power steering pulley?

 

You have the setup! How about some pics? Bolt sizes? Why the SI over CS alternator. Where does your PS reservoir mount? How did you do your hoses?

BTW for all who have responded thanks! More help here in a few hours than in 2 days in the C4 forum.

Keep it coming!

Orville

 

The install is so olde now, see the site for the best there is at this point....I dunno where really old pix when it was fresh even ARE now...sorry....

back in the daze of film photography//remember THAT??

eh...


anyway....use standard SAE/American inch standard bolts...nothing new or dramatic....and i'ts a bolt on, NO clearance issues with anything....

you gotta remember, Gm engineers typically use a test mule....a current production car, for new development work...so in the case of the C4, it was an '82 or 83 vette....ONE still existing...

I think that is the reason it fits so nicely...THAT and the C4 chassis design is so similar, in reality...transverse spring, cross support in front of engine, etc....

 

Specs please.
Bolt Diameter, length, thread, tensile strength,

I know it should interchange to any gen 1 block and heads. What source? Summit and Jegs have nothing.

 

Well, on your stock block the threads are 3/8 -16, I dunno the various lengths....grade 5 is the most you will need, Home Despot has all/most of them, assuming your have no junk box of olde car parts....

some of the older heads will be missing some holes for accessory mounting, the '70's heads will typically be missing the upper centermost bolt hole for say the a/c compressor mount bracket...I just leave it out and i'ts fine...got 3-4 more in front, plus the brace to the rear exhaust manifold.....

the bolt penetration into the block should not be less than 1/2 inch in any case, and 5/8 is more like it...two more threads...check depth first, obviously....IF I can't find the exact bolt, I use washers/spacers to make something work, go back and cover the base later, if necessary...mainly due to appearance...

but my daze of showing the car are far over with, today it's a street driver....quicker than most, not even 1/2 fast as others....

 

You say you have a "1. Lower Alternator/PS Pump bracket"? I will assume you mean you have a bracket that holds the PS pump lower and the alt high. There should be only three bolts to hold the serpentine alt/PS bracket on and three that hold the AC compressor bracket on. There should be a short steel brace that is attached to the back of the AC bracket and another steel bracket that braces the back of the alt/PS and attaches to the front exhaust manifold bolt. I would not omit these steel brackets/braces. They are there for a reason.


I believe most of the fasteners on the serpentine setup itself are SAE metric, 8mm and 10mm. The bolts that attach the brackets to the front of your 71 engine will not be metric of course and should be 3/8-16 (I think). I'm thinking you will want at least 3/8-16 x 1" grade 5 bolts. These should be available at Lowes/Home Depot.

Any GM PS pump will bolt in. Your 71 pump has the same mounting as the later "metric" pumps however if you use a later style (with metric fittings) you will have metric fittings on the Jeep box. This will make the swap easier.

 

I guess I will start measuring the brackets and add 5/8" to get theoretical lengths. Then its off to McMaster Carr to order bolts. Do these use flat washers or lock washers? I guess on the back brackets, I may need to either make appropriate length spacers, or new brackets altogether as I have Hooker Side Mounts rather than stock exhast manifolds

 

TTT
Pics? more suggestions?

 

Isn't there a company that sells these serp systems in a kit? They should have all the info you need. Pics, bolt sized and locations.

What is it you still need info on?

 

I don't know anyone that sells authentic C4 Corvette serp setup as a kit. For $2000 give or take, I could get the March Performance kit. Its beautiful. Billet Specialties, and others have some great looking kits too, and some I would never touch. I just like the idea of using the C4 stuff, in that there are some built in upgrades. I may have to go buy one (LOL) to take apart and see what its like.

 

Call around to salvage yards and see if anyone has a C4 with a complete motor. Like a pick and pull kind of place. Then, maybe you pay a few hundred, but you can take the whole thing.

 

Stuff that I need.
1. PS reservoir (& where does it mount?)
2. PS hoses - going to need custom setup to run 71 Power steering (I am starting to collect pieces for a jeep box conversion, just not there yet).
3. Custom AC hoses to fit the later model Compressor up to POA valve system and complete R134A conversion

Polished waterpump, or over the counter replacement alu pump?

Stick with the 105 amp CS130, or go to 140 amp, 200 amp? - Polished, chrome?

I know that wiring connectors are readily available for attaching a CS130 in to the stock wiring harness, but what about the ac compressor clutch hookup?

 

I can't help with all of that, but I know a few things for you.

The alt. The CS144 is less likely to overheat, and will provide you with lots of power. The CS130 isn't bad if you don't run it too hard. A stock Vette with a CS130 would be fine.

The A/C compressor on both uses a one wire turn on. It's grounded through the bracket, and a single wire feeds the clutch to engage it.

 

I also have this setup. I will try to take some photos, but honestly you will either have to sweet-talk the counter guy at the GM dealer or go trial and error on bolt length. All of the bolts that go to the block are 3/8-16 thread.

I have a '84 p/s reservoir, but I used to have the '90 style mounted to the fenderwell.

I used the '84-85 style alternator because it plugs right in and they are more reliable than the later ones. The lower bracket is the same for both. I also got an air pump eliminator kit from Breathless. Get it to match the alternator you choose.

Made a high pressure p/s hose with the stock C3 hose and a C4 hose joined with a flare fitting. That way you can swivel it in the middle to avoid kinking it.

The '90 Nippendenso a/c compressor is a nice part. Unfortunately you have to build a hose for it because the stock hose is not the right length. I had my local CarQuest build it for me. No big deal.

Send me an E-mail address to send photos to and I will send tomorrow.

 

I have a 91 coupe; same layout as the 90 (L98). I can email the pic to you but you have locked out your email address.

Let me know if you want me to email the layout to you. I am more than happy to help. I have the factory service manual so I will do what I can.

My 91 is already put away for the winter so I can't go look at it.

I owe you guys a lot. Just let me know if I can help.

Dan in Austin

 

You have PM. Thanks.