Got the car running right with everyone's help. Thanks!

I don't like to be just a taker. I like to give something back but I'm having a new problem and hope all you kind folks can shed some light on my current issue. I know this won't be the last time I need help but I promise I will offer help in any area I can (as always) and thank you all in advance for your continued kindness and patience.

The car is(was) ready to go in for paint. I'm scheduled to drop it off on Saturday morning but I don't want to send her off until I know she'll be ok with someone else running her.

My problem now is the SPAL PWM. It was running fine (both fans get power and run) However, now it won't accept programming (should have left it at the factory settings).

I called Dewitt's today but he was on vacation. I then spoke to SPAL USA's tech line. Feedback - The settings have to be 30 degrees apart. Ok I set the last program at 180 low and 200 high because the motor wouldn't get up to temp with the low fan coming in at 160. This could be the root of my problem now.

The problem at first (after I changed the program to 180/200) was that the fan came on instantly on HIGH on a cold motor. When I try to reprogram I disconnected the wires to the fan (some say this isn't necessary). Ran the car up to 160 (using an infrared thermometer pointed at the brass plug juts below the thermostat) and then continued up to 195 to set the high. I use the IR because I'm not comfortable with the accuracy of the old gauge and it doesn't tell me anything about temp until 210.

When I push the low button the yellow light flashes but won't stay lit. Ditto on the High setting. (The first time I programmed it the light would stay on) The fans don't come on. They did come on previously and I am using the sensor that Dewitt's sent me plugged into the passenger side head.

Why is it doing this? All the fuses are fine. The ground is fine. The accessory line to the relay is getting power. None of the wires are cut or melted. It was working until I changed the settings to 180 and 200.

I'm going to call Dewitt's again tomorrow and I'll try SPAL again. I'm hoping someone else had this problem and knows the fix.

(BTW, for those who helped on my previous post the body shop is sending the car out for 4 wheel alignment and then to a mechanic who works on all their motors and tunes all kinds of high performance motors to make sure I've got everything dialed in correctly after all your help. This should eliminate any brain damage I've applied to the tuning. )

Thanks,

Whiplash

 

I had a similar problem with my SPAL controller. I tried programming it because I was originally using the factory temp sensor. The fan seemed to skip the low speed setting and go right to high speed. I then put on a new thermostat housing with an outlet for the temp sensor that Dewitt's included and hooked up the new sensor. The controller stopped working altogether at that point. Dewitt's sent me a replacement controller and I left it at the factory settings. The low speed fan (single fan) seems to come on pretty soon after I run the engine but I only have the in-car guage so who knows what the temp really is. The temp stays well below the 210 mark on the guage so I'm content with the way it's working.

BTW, Dewitt's has been working with SPAL to determine the cause of the controller failures. SPAL claims that the majority of the controller returns are coming from Dewitt's customers.



Rick B.

 

SPAL claims that the majority of the controller returns are coming from Dewitt's customers.



Rick B.[/QUOTE]

I worked for a company that sold SPAL power windows and we sold hundreds a month for them. If a company needs to IMPROVE their service it is SPAL. The power window design is terrible, but they blaim the installation ALL the time. I agree that some installers shouldn't touch a kiddy car, but the product does need some new engineering.

I'm sure the controller is SPALS problem. If SPAL is seeing many of these come back. That would tell me (SPAL) we must change our programming sequence so we don't receive so many defectives. But I'm sure they just repack them and reship.

 

All I have to say is that Tom Dewitt is a stand up guy all around! Part of the reason I bought this kit from him as opposed to other options was my previous experience with him buying a radiator. I must say he more than reinforced my trust in him today.

I spoke to him for less than 15 seconds and he told me he was sending a new controller. Not once did he give me even the slightest bit of a hard time. He is absolutely customer focused. The other thing that I really admired about him was that he took the high road and just did the right thing by me. He didn't offer any excuses. He just stepped up. Dewitt is A#1 in my book!

My experience with the SPAL tech guy yesterday was less than impressive however. He told me the reason it didn't work was because the two temps had to be separated by 30 degrees. The book says 20. He didn't even attempt to give me any trouble shooting advice.

I've been in product management for 15 years. I've never seen an OEM with such disregard for a distributor or the end customer. I know it happens but if I had as many units coming back to me as SPAL must be getting I'd put everything I had into figuring out what the problem was.

I need to postpone sending the car out for paint because I have to change out the controller but I feel much better knowing it should be fixed right. If for some reason this one doesn't work I'm going to go with just a relay and a switch.

 

Tom is a great guy, but the problem is SPAL. Tom can only due what he can do, it's the manufacture that needs to clean up there act.

 

That's what I meant about OEM (original equipment manufacturer) = SPAL, Tom is the distributor and we're the lucky end users. I've got a lot of respect for Tom. He could have blamed SPAL, and rightfully so, but he didn't. He just looked out for the customer and is taking it on the chin from SPAL. I'd buy from Tom again any day.

 

I worked for a company that sold SPAL power windows and we sold hundreds a month for them. If a company needs to IMPROVE their service it is SPAL. The power window design is terrible, but they blaim the installation ALL the time. I agree that some installers shouldn't touch a kiddy car, but the product does need some new engineering.

I'm sure the controller is SPALS problem. If SPAL is seeing many of these come back. That would tell me (SPAL) we must change our programming sequence so we don't receive so many defectives. But I'm sure they just repack them and reship. [/QUOTE]

Interesting comment about the repack and reship. The rubber grommet on my original controller wasn't seated properly in the housing, leading me to wonder if the unit had been opened at some point. I have a background in computer engineering so these types of things tend to catch my eye.



Rick B.

 

I've also seen some strange things in my life from manufactures. The problem is the few that do it, give the good ones a bad name

 

Got the new PWM on Friday. Installed 90% yesterday and finished today. Started the car to do the programming. Let it run through the factory settings to see when the lights came on. The LOW light didn't come on at the 160 it's theoretically programmed for. I pushed the program at 175 and it lit and stayed on. The HIGH light never came on the and engine started to overheat at 210 degrees using the IR thermometer pointed at the metal plug under the thermostat. I tried to get it to accept a program for HIGH at this point but it wouldn't.

Turned off the motor and plugged the fans in. Put ignition to power without starting the motor. No fans; the low fans should at least com on at this point. Let the motor cool. Checked the wiring. Noticed when I disconnected the white ground the LOW fan came on. Hmmm, the original wiring sheet said to ground this wire. If you want you can connect it to the GREEN SPAL Sensor wire for "increased resolution" Figured this couldn't hurt. Connect the WHITE to GREEN. LOW fan came on with the motor slightly warm (150 degrees). All other wires are connected correctly and getting the appropriate power. No blown fuses.

Pulled car out. Disconnected fans. Let motor come up to 160 (this is the thermostat setting) pushed the LOW program button. Flashed after a few seconds and stayed lit. OK this is what it's supposed to do. Got the motor up to 190. Pushed the HIGH button. All three lights blink meaning the settings are too close to each other. Let it get up to 205 trying every 5 degrees to get it to take the HIGH program. No dice. Turned car off, plugged in fans, turned back on. Not even a LOW fan. You would think the default with a problem with programming would be ON not OFF.

Pulled the car in before it overheated again and thought about throwing some wrenches around and decided not to be an infant. Came in here to vent to you guys.

I'm going to call Tom in the morning. He mentioned a idiot proof switch solution when I talked to him last. I guess this uses another relay and some kind of switch instead of the PWM. I'm sure he'll explain it to me.

If this doesn't work I'm pulling the electric fans and putting the shroud and mechanical fan back in. This was supposed to be a way to ensure the car was cool in the heat of Texas but now it seems like a fool proof way to seize your motor from over heating.

Anyone else using just a thermal switch and relay of some kind instead of this PWM?

Thanks,

Whiplash

 

Went back and checked all the wiring again. Noticed that the sensor plug had one connector (black wire) pushed in so that it may or may not have engaged the metal pin on the sensor. Fixed the plug so it would be sure to engage. Also pulled the sensor and made sure the threads were clean. Filler her back up with coolant and fired her up.

This time it accepted the LOW at 165 but I had to run it up to just about 203 to get the HIGH to accept a setting. When I plugged the fans back in the LOW comes on but the HIGH would not. When I turn off the car but leave the key in the ON position the sensor kicks into HIGH and both fans pull. It did this on the motor all the way back down to 165 before I gave up. (I turned the key off and then back on again every 5 degrees to see where it would accept that it was on the LOW end again).

I'm fed up with this. Nine months of work ripping this whole car down to nothing and then back together again. The crate motor knocks (I didn't do a rebuild myself because I wanted a hassle free motor install), the carb is a PITA to tune, and the fans won't come on and off when they're supposed to. I would have thought I would have had some other weird problems but not this BS.

Hopefully, Dewitt's will help me at least get the fans working properly. I went to his sight. It appears the solution is another relay with a thermal switch instead of a sensor that comes on at 195 and then goes back off at 175. Is anyone using this setup? I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Not looking forward to draining the coolant again. What a messy job that is.

Whiplash