Too much lifter adjustment? Oops...
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by l88rocket
The best way to adjust Hyd lifters is to.this is messy so just have to clean up after.I took a old valve cover and cut the middle out.
1. start engine let it warm up,(leave valve covers on for this)
2.when warm,start on #1
3.back off adjusting nut till the rockers clatter.tight just till they are quiet and leave them,you can put a 1/8 turn but nomore.tight the poly locks if running them
4.Go around engine doing all lifters the same way.
5.clean up and reinstall V/C.
the feeler gauge really only works on solid lifters,hyd really need done with the engine running.
1. start engine let it warm up,(leave valve covers on for this)
2.when warm,start on #1
3.back off adjusting nut till the rockers clatter.tight just till they are quiet and leave them,you can put a 1/8 turn but nomore.tight the poly locks if running them
4.Go around engine doing all lifters the same way.
5.clean up and reinstall V/C.
the feeler gauge really only works on solid lifters,hyd really need done with the engine running.
This is how I"ve been doing it for years. What no one has been able to answer is if this will work for a roller cam and hyd. roller lifter and roller rockers. If there is no change then I have no problems doing it this way...it's how I've always done it.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by l88rocket
The lifter doesn't know what cam it's on,all hyd lifters adjust the same.same for solid lifters.
To answer your question yes same method to adjust them.
To answer your question yes same method to adjust them.
Great to know. And the roller tips of the roller rockers won't change the process either? Thanks.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: Miami FL
the above mentioned away is how i did it on my mustang 5.0 which had hyd roller lifters and cam, and full roller rockers. i know how to do it both with the engine off and following the order posted earlier and with the engine on with the cut valve cover. i'll always got it perfect with the engine on method, as with then other it was only sometimes and it always took alot longer
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by coolerthanethan
the above mentioned away is how i did it on my mustang 5.0 which had hyd roller lifters and cam, and full roller rockers. i know how to do it both with the engine off and following the order posted earlier and with the engine on with the cut valve cover. i'll always got it perfect with the engine on method, as with then other it was only sometimes and it always took alot longer
Cool. I will do it the way I always have them. I'll do Lar's method on this fresh build, and once I have it in and running I'll go through each one and loosen to get clatter, and tighten to get rid of clatter. What's the preferred follow up turn for this method? 1/4? 1/2?
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Fort Lauderdale FL
Regardless of method used, as there are many and everyone has prefernces, once you are done adjusting the valves, go back and do a compression check, verify you cylinder pressures and readjust if needed on just those that are out of wack.
There is no substitute for numbers, tuning by ear/feel will get you by but to be dead on, some measurable reference that is more precise is needed to be sure you are dead on, kind of like tuning a carb, no subsititute for a vac gauge and O2 sensor sniffer if you have one.
Just my $0.02
There is no substitute for numbers, tuning by ear/feel will get you by but to be dead on, some measurable reference that is more precise is needed to be sure you are dead on, kind of like tuning a carb, no subsititute for a vac gauge and O2 sensor sniffer if you have one.
Just my $0.02
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by 75coupered
:One of the best methods to adjust valve lash that I have seen and use is to adjust them for maximum compression with a compression gauge. Screw in the gauge, adjust both intake and exhaust, move on to the next and repeat over and over then do a final test on all cylinders, try to get them all within 5psi of each other.
This method has two distinct advantages, first is you will know and balance the compression of each cylinder, this should generate the most power, secondly, if compression cannot be balanced in one or two cylinders, then you know you have deeper issues.
This method has two distinct advantages, first is you will know and balance the compression of each cylinder, this should generate the most power, secondly, if compression cannot be balanced in one or two cylinders, then you know you have deeper issues.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 2
From: Sherwood Park AB
Originally Posted by Durango_boy
And you put her in her place right?
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 2
From: Sherwood Park AB
Originally Posted by sperkins
Did you adjust it down to where there is pushrod resistance (zero lash) and then turn it down 1/2 to 3/4 turn? Well, if you did this, you more than likely have the valves not closing all the way.
Hydraulic lifters require roughly a .030" pintle depth setting. This means that you adjust valves by the depth that the pintle in the lifter drops. Too tight and the valves do not close, too loose and they rattle and do not open properly and damage the lifter.
Sounds to me like the adjustment was done out of sequence, or a few a re still not adjusted correctly.
I'm sure you know what you are doing, but did you do it this way adjusting off the backside of the lobe (or base circle)?
Intake valve adjustment:
with #1 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #6 Intake Valve
with #8 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #5 Intake Valve
with #4 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #7 Intake Valve
with #3 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #2 Intake Valve
with #6 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #1 Intake Valve
with #5 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #8 Intake Valve
with #7 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #4 Intake Valve
with #2 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #3 Intake Valve
Exhaust valve adjsutment.
with #1 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #6 Exhaust Valve
with #8 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #5 Exhaust Valve
with #4 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #7 Exhaust Valve
with #3 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #2 Exhaust Valve
with #6 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #1 Exhaust Valve
with #5 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #8 Exhaust Valve
with #7 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #4 Exhaust Valve
with #2 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #3 Exhaust Valve
Hydraulic lifters require roughly a .030" pintle depth setting. This means that you adjust valves by the depth that the pintle in the lifter drops. Too tight and the valves do not close, too loose and they rattle and do not open properly and damage the lifter.
Sounds to me like the adjustment was done out of sequence, or a few a re still not adjusted correctly.
I'm sure you know what you are doing, but did you do it this way adjusting off the backside of the lobe (or base circle)?
Intake valve adjustment:
with #1 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #6 Intake Valve
with #8 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #5 Intake Valve
with #4 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #7 Intake Valve
with #3 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #2 Intake Valve
with #6 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #1 Intake Valve
with #5 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #8 Intake Valve
with #7 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #4 Intake Valve
with #2 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #3 Intake Valve
Exhaust valve adjsutment.
with #1 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #6 Exhaust Valve
with #8 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #5 Exhaust Valve
with #4 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #7 Exhaust Valve
with #3 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #2 Exhaust Valve
with #6 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #1 Exhaust Valve
with #5 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #8 Exhaust Valve
with #7 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #4 Exhaust Valve
with #2 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #3 Exhaust Valve
I think this is similar to the way I did it. I followed the procedure in my "How to build a small block chevy book". I marked the damper at incriments, and adjusted each valve as I turned the dampner. It took two full revolutions to adjust all valves. The first time I tried, the #1 was on the wrong stroke, and all valves were way too loose.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 2
From: Sherwood Park AB
[QUOTE=75couperedOne of the best methods to adjust valve lash that I have seen and use is to adjust them for maximum compression with a compression gauge. Screw in the gauge, adjust both intake and exhaust, move on to the next and repeat over and over then do a final test on all cylinders, try to get them all within 5psi of each other.
This method has two distinct advantages, first is you will know and balance the compression of each cylinder, this should generate the most power, secondly, if compression cannot be balanced in one or two cylinders, then you know you have deeper issues.
Just remember as with any compression test, test it at operating temp.
Just my $0.02[/QUOTE]
Thanks, I'll remember that.
This method has two distinct advantages, first is you will know and balance the compression of each cylinder, this should generate the most power, secondly, if compression cannot be balanced in one or two cylinders, then you know you have deeper issues.
Just remember as with any compression test, test it at operating temp.
Just my $0.02[/QUOTE]
Thanks, I'll remember that.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by rexx78
The first time I tried, the #1 was on the wrong stroke, and all valves were way too loose.
Yeah, starting at TDC is key, and without seeing the piston directly it's easy to miss the position of the valves.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 2
From: Sherwood Park AB
Originally Posted by bobs77vet
using this method whats the guarantee that the valves are opening at all? seems like this puts the bias on having valves that are not opening fully
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Fort Lauderdale FL
Originally Posted by bobs77vet
using this method whats the guarantee that the valves are opening at all? seems like this puts the bias on having valves that are not opening fully
You are correct, there is more bias towards close than open in this method for the following reasons:
If the valves are too loose, they will still work albeit not at full potential because either the intake or exhaust side will be restricted from fully opening. Too tight, and you lose compression, get intake backfire etc, far worse than too loose in terms of power loss and running order. So you need to fine the sweet spot where they just fully close. As such the bias towards more closed than open has it's merrits. At least for me
Last edited by 75coupered; Nov 8, 2006 at 10:39 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by 75coupered
What you want to achieve is the point where max compression is reached, until you reach your pressure set-point, this will ensure that each cylinder is putting out the most power. When you loosen and the pressure does not increase anymore, you are too loose, and need to tighten just until the pressure drops.
You are correct, there is more bias towards close than open in this method for the following reasons:
If the valves are too loose, they will still work albeit not at full potential because either the intake or exhaust side will be restriced from fully opening. Too tight, and you loose compression, get intake backfire etc, far worse than too loose in terms of power loss and running order. So you need to fine the sweet spot where they just fully close. As such the bias towards more closed than open has it's merrits. At least for me
You are correct, there is more bias towards close than open in this method for the following reasons:
If the valves are too loose, they will still work albeit not at full potential because either the intake or exhaust side will be restriced from fully opening. Too tight, and you loose compression, get intake backfire etc, far worse than too loose in terms of power loss and running order. So you need to fine the sweet spot where they just fully close. As such the bias towards more closed than open has it's merrits. At least for me
Great explanation my friend. Top notch work. You get a gold star on the board this morning.
