Traction bar, Stabalizer bar ?
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Traction bar, Stabalizer bar ?
I am still stewing over this due to my wheel hop problem. Some have said to try a traction/stabalizer bar on the rear. I have not done this but went under the car to look tonight. I have the rear in there with urethane bushing all around and they are extremly tight. I jacked up the front and the rear of the diff, lifted the car this way and neither end budged at all. I mean it is solid as a rock. How does the traction bar really work. It just looks like it ties the rear mount to the frame. So does the front diff mount. Even if it does move a fraction of an inch how is that going to help the traction problem. I can see on a solid axle car if the springs wrap up due to the housing twisting but the trailing arm is totally independent of the diff housing. Just the half shaft and that is rotating anyway. I'm not sold at all on the traction bar helping me out. If anyone can dispute or clue me in to how this works better let me know. 
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 10
From: Big Pine Key FL
just guessin here but isnt wheel hop uncontrolled vibration of the suspension?
Why wouldnt you try different tire pressure (different freq) or different shocks (damping) or different tires or a different spring rate or preload....
Just thinking out loud...
Why wouldnt you try different tire pressure (different freq) or different shocks (damping) or different tires or a different spring rate or preload....
Just thinking out loud...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,465
Likes: 0
From: Orange Park Fl
As you turn, weight is lifted from the inside wheel and the leaf spring is decompressed, pushing it down. At the same time, the outside wheel/ spring is being compressed. This creates body roll (leaning to the outside). As this happens, a stabilizer bar tries to compress the inside spring, and decompress the outside spring to level the rear end. God bless, Sensei
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
This happens in a straight line.
I have had different shocks on the car a 330# rear spring and now a 420# rear spring. 3 different sets of tires different sizes and 15,17,and now 18 inch tires. A rear stabilizer bar and no rear bar.
I have had different shocks on the car a 330# rear spring and now a 420# rear spring. 3 different sets of tires different sizes and 15,17,and now 18 inch tires. A rear stabilizer bar and no rear bar.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,465
Likes: 0
From: Orange Park Fl
Your car may have emotional problems, seek professional help! But seriously, you may have something like a u-joint binding, a problem with the wheels themselves, the trailing arms, there is a lot of stuff back there. Good luck.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 21
From: Columbus MN
Wrong wheel hop
Originally Posted by a1sensei
As you turn, weight is lifted from the inside wheel and the leaf spring is decompressed, pushing it down. At the same time, the outside wheel/ spring is being compressed. This creates body roll (leaning to the outside). As this happens, a stabilizer bar tries to compress the inside spring, and decompress the outside spring to level the rear end. God bless, Sensei
I am going to try a traction/stabilizer bar. My theory is that the IRS is only so stiff and can handle only a certain amount of torque to the rear wheels. When that threshhold is exceeded, the built up force is unloaded to the wheels and drops below the threshhold, and the cycle starts over again - quickly, of course. The rapid load-unload causes the wheel hop.
That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.
...unless, of course, someone has a better theory that won't make me feel like I made a mistake buying a traction/stabilizer bar.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 21
From: Columbus MN
None of the above
Originally Posted by a1sensei
Your car may have emotional problems, seek professional help! But seriously, you may have something like a u-joint binding, a problem with the wheels themselves, the trailing arms, there is a lot of stuff back there. Good luck.
My wheel hop problem did not start until I put on new full length headers and got my timing and carb tuned. My GMPP 350 crate engine is putting a lot more torque to the rear wheels now then it was before I had wheel a hop problem.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 16,100
Likes: 17
Just thinking out loud as well..: Could there be a resonance between spring and shocks ?? Maybe a stiffer shock is needed...easy to try out...
Some causes of this are "soft" motor mounts as well..(more occillation to rear)..
Rich
Some causes of this are "soft" motor mounts as well..(more occillation to rear)..
Rich
Last edited by rihwoods; Dec 7, 2006 at 11:21 PM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,752
Likes: 4
From: Austin Texas
Verrrrry interesting topic. I had this problem on my '68 Vert L-79, when running street tires. I have never had any wheel-hop on my coupe, with street or drag tires. I attributed this to the anemic L-79 not making enough torque to firmly plant the rear. Both my 'Vert and coupe have identical V/B 550 lb. front and 7 leaf steel rear springs. G/L
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,126
Likes: 174
From: WI
If anyone is interested I have a traction bar that I am selling for CHEAP.....$20+UPS e-mail direct!! redvetracr@yahoo.com
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,951
Likes: 1
From: Shore NJ
Oh brother...
will you please get the #$%^& bar and give it a try! 
seriously, I think the "stabilization bar" and maybe differant shocks should show some improvement.....Stiffer shocks should dampen and help with the T/A's upward movement, your getting alot of bite from those tires initally then the hopping occurs, like a funny car....did you give VB a call?
will you please get the #$%^& bar and give it a try! seriously, I think the "stabilization bar" and maybe differant shocks should show some improvement.....Stiffer shocks should dampen and help with the T/A's upward movement, your getting alot of bite from those tires initally then the hopping occurs, like a funny car....did you give VB a call?
Pro
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
From: lantana,fl.
I have the same problem,and here is what I think has happened.
I did not have any what so ever!! Wheel hop when I had the stock 30 year old t/a bushings!!
I put in poly like eveyone else had done and then wheel hop started.
I installed the traction bar no difference! Wasted money!
If those bushings weren't such a pain in the azz I would go back to the stock rubber.
This just my 2 cents,
Happy Hopping
I did not have any what so ever!! Wheel hop when I had the stock 30 year old t/a bushings!!
I put in poly like eveyone else had done and then wheel hop started.
I installed the traction bar no difference! Wasted money!
If those bushings weren't such a pain in the azz I would go back to the stock rubber.
This just my 2 cents,
Happy Hopping
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Originally Posted by 74droptop
I have the same problem,and here is what I think has happened.
I did not have any what so ever!! Wheel hop when I had the stock 30 year old t/a bushings!!
I put in poly like eveyone else had done and then wheel hop started.
I installed the traction bar no difference! Wasted money!
If those bushings weren't such a pain in the azz I would go back to the stock rubber.
This just my 2 cents,
Happy Hopping
I did not have any what so ever!! Wheel hop when I had the stock 30 year old t/a bushings!!
I put in poly like eveyone else had done and then wheel hop started.
I installed the traction bar no difference! Wasted money!
If those bushings weren't such a pain in the azz I would go back to the stock rubber.
This just my 2 cents,
Happy Hopping
Racer
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
From: Charleston South Carolina
I would try more air pressure in the rear tires. If you think about it, the tire is supposed to be round and between the weight of the car and the torque of the engine the tires get compressed into the pavement very rapidly causing the tires not to be round for a split second. As the "un-round" tire makes a complete revolution the energy is transmitted to the shocks to compensate for the inbalancement. It looks like you tried everything else but I would mess around with tire pressure. Or, it might be the way your starting the burnout. It sounds like your mashing the pedal and the shocks can't keep up with the movement. Try to gradually spin the tires up and see what happens.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by rihwoods
Old time drag racers use to drive finishing nails into their rubber bushings to minimize wheel hop....made them more rigid/stiffer...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 5
From: Paducah Ky
This may be really way out there in left field but could the problem have nothing to do with the dif mounting and be caused by something else?
Try this one out.
When you stand on the gas and load the halfshafts the torque tries to lift the wheel from the ground which causes IRS cars to "squat". What happens if your differential does not apply power to both shafts equally? Would the loaded wheel lift raising this end of the transverse spring which would apply more weight to the opposite end of the spring effectively transferring traction to the opposite wheel. If this end then lifted from the torque traction would transfer again. If this load transfers back and forth rapidly cauing the wheel to slip then bite could this not cause the wheelhop?
Like I said may be way out there
but I wonder about the posi working correctly
Try this one out.
When you stand on the gas and load the halfshafts the torque tries to lift the wheel from the ground which causes IRS cars to "squat". What happens if your differential does not apply power to both shafts equally? Would the loaded wheel lift raising this end of the transverse spring which would apply more weight to the opposite end of the spring effectively transferring traction to the opposite wheel. If this end then lifted from the torque traction would transfer again. If this load transfers back and forth rapidly cauing the wheel to slip then bite could this not cause the wheelhop?
Like I said may be way out there
but I wonder about the posi working correctly
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Originally Posted by gyopp
This may be really way out there in left field but could the problem have nothing to do with the dif mounting and be caused by something else?
Try this one out.
When you stand on the gas and load the halfshafts the torque tries to lift the wheel from the ground which causes IRS cars to "squat". What happens if your differential does not apply power to both shafts equally? Would the loaded wheel lift raising this end of the transverse spring which would apply more weight to the opposite end of the spring effectively transferring traction to the opposite wheel. If this end then lifted from the torque traction would transfer again. If this load transfers back and forth rapidly cauing the wheel to slip then bite could this not cause the wheelhop?
Like I said may be way out there but I wonder about the posi working correctly
Try this one out.
When you stand on the gas and load the halfshafts the torque tries to lift the wheel from the ground which causes IRS cars to "squat". What happens if your differential does not apply power to both shafts equally? Would the loaded wheel lift raising this end of the transverse spring which would apply more weight to the opposite end of the spring effectively transferring traction to the opposite wheel. If this end then lifted from the torque traction would transfer again. If this load transfers back and forth rapidly cauing the wheel to slip then bite could this not cause the wheelhop?
Like I said may be way out there
but I wonder about the posi working correctlyI think I'll try varying air pressures and work on my driving, feathering the throttle. It is getting cold here so I don't have much time left before I tear iit apart this winter for some more mods.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
I think the poly bushings make the suspension work too free.With the rubber bushings the suspension tries to come back to a certain point -the poly doesnt have this memory.
Gordon have you tried the 2 plates across the diff. support that makes it solid?
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=533
Gordon have you tried the 2 plates across the diff. support that makes it solid?
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=533
Last edited by ...Roger...; Dec 9, 2006 at 09:20 AM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Originally Posted by DWncchs
Gordon have you tried the 2 plates across the diff. support that makes it solid?
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=533
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=533
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