Pinion Spacer
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
the crush sleeve? you need to either use a puller to remove the ebaring race or take out the entire pinion, meaning you need to remove the ring gear crrier. The inner bearing is larger than the outer one and the crus sleeve is wider than the outer bearing on the larger diameter part, that's what's hanging.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
I may add to TT's reply above that I have never had to replace a crush sleeve do to popping the yoke off or loosening the nut....just re torque to previous specs....
but in fact what I have done is....and some of you all may laugh...
but just put some Red thread lock on it, and tighten down till fairly snug...not too tight, the sleeve is allready crushed to needed spec, its nothing but a adjustable spacer without all the extra effort of fitting it/them up on a select basis....
so IF you didn't have the inner bearing replaced near the pinion gear head, just do it the simple way....
but in fact what I have done is....and some of you all may laugh...
but just put some Red thread lock on it, and tighten down till fairly snug...not too tight, the sleeve is allready crushed to needed spec, its nothing but a adjustable spacer without all the extra effort of fitting it/them up on a select basis....
so IF you didn't have the inner bearing replaced near the pinion gear head, just do it the simple way....
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 205
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From: tn
pinion
After putting new seal everyt thing turned great until i drove .sounded like metal against metal. back under again.turned drive shaft and noticed seal was spinning also figure seal not on far enough or sleeve crushed?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
the seal has nothing to do with the crush sleeve...the seal shouldn't be pounded in all the way, it should be installed with a little room to spare (GTR1999 will know how much from the top of his head, it's about 3mm...I'm better in metrics than imperial)
Last edited by Twin_Turbo; Dec 16, 2006 at 07:39 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,123
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From: Gladstone MO
C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
WHen you replace the seal, pack the cavity on it with wheel bearing grease. And use a little bit to pre-lube the seal lips. Grease in the cavity keeps the garter spring from coming off.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,159
Likes: 3,965
From: Connecticut, USA
The seal should not spin, never had one that did. The gap is usually .125 between the housing and the seal flange but I did have a 75 unit that was not machined correctly and the flanged seal could not be used becuase it would hit the sheild on the pinion yoke. I had to cut the flange off and it was ok. You should pack grease around the spring as Tim said but also use #2 on the splines and bring the nut back to the same spot to correct pre-load. Now if you used an impact and it went beyond the set point and crushed the sleeve more it will over-load the bearings and they will run hot and probably start making noise. If you have a 0-30 dial wrench you can see what the load is on the pinion. With used bearings you should have abotu 5 in/lbs but you also have to add in the total rotation because you're going to pickup the carrier(case) bearings preload and that will add another 5-10 in/lbs. This is not easy to do under the car, I've never done it that way, but it might be do-able?
Did you check the pinion OD for any wear that may damage the new seal?
Did you check the pinion OD for any wear that may damage the new seal?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
it's pretty hard to crush, best is to partly collapse it in a vise or a press so it just starts to collapse and then insert it and torque down the pinion nut to crush it further. You crush it until the pinion has a drag resistance of about 15lbs.inch so you need a dial torqometer. For this obviously the carrier should be removed
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,159
Likes: 3,965
From: Connecticut, USA
TT is correct. The GM sleeves( now discontinued #3954483) were much stronger and HARDER to crush then the current after market sleeves. The current ones will require a good "start" to crush them but once they are in the range they will crush very fast with an impact gun so you have to be very careful with this.
The only way to know is using the dial torque wrench to see what the drag is. 15-18 in/lbs is the drag on new bearings with just the pinion in place- no carrier. Assembled and with used bearings the drag will be int he 5-10 range. Used bearings, pinion alone about 5 in/lbs. Thing is if you're down to having it apart why re-use the old bearings? Spend the money and use new bearings at this point.
I have a used diff in here now for yoke bearings and found the pinion seal leaking also. I will have to see if the previous guy replaced the seal correctly or if there are other issues there. I could post about this if there is interest.
The only way to know is using the dial torque wrench to see what the drag is. 15-18 in/lbs is the drag on new bearings with just the pinion in place- no carrier. Assembled and with used bearings the drag will be int he 5-10 range. Used bearings, pinion alone about 5 in/lbs. Thing is if you're down to having it apart why re-use the old bearings? Spend the money and use new bearings at this point.
I have a used diff in here now for yoke bearings and found the pinion seal leaking also. I will have to see if the previous guy replaced the seal correctly or if there are other issues there. I could post about this if there is interest.
Last edited by GTR1999; Dec 17, 2006 at 08:53 AM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,159
Likes: 3,965
From: Connecticut, USA
Hey Norval,
Yes I do offer them as an option. It makes the replacement of the seals a lot easier as the yoke goes back to the same position. The only change would be if the bearings were replaced then the solid sleeve would need adjustment.
The problem doing this on the car would be working area and setup. When I do them I start out loose then shim to get the torque range required,this take a few changes and it is much easier to do on the bench.
A lot of guys don't want to go for the extra time and part to do this though so I still use the crush sleeves too.
This unit I have now fooled me. I was told it did not leak, and it was evident someone replaced the seal in the past. The internals were virgin so I tested it with some oil and it didn't leak after an hour or two. So I added the full amount of oil, assembled it and left it hanging down. 8 hours later I found it leaking on the floor!!
Yes I do offer them as an option. It makes the replacement of the seals a lot easier as the yoke goes back to the same position. The only change would be if the bearings were replaced then the solid sleeve would need adjustment.
The problem doing this on the car would be working area and setup. When I do them I start out loose then shim to get the torque range required,this take a few changes and it is much easier to do on the bench.
A lot of guys don't want to go for the extra time and part to do this though so I still use the crush sleeves too.
This unit I have now fooled me. I was told it did not leak, and it was evident someone replaced the seal in the past. The internals were virgin so I tested it with some oil and it didn't leak after an hour or two. So I added the full amount of oil, assembled it and left it hanging down. 8 hours later I found it leaking on the floor!!
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
I install the pinion with this solid spacer, hit the pinion nut with a impact and then measure the end play. Usually I find it the .010 I left on. I then machine off this amount, reassemble and again check end play. I seem to get lucky and you feel the drap of the preload but no end play. I really feel these are superior to crush sleeves, they are consistent and you can assemble with the impact, no long bar and crushing a sleeve.
Marck any piece of steel and a hour on a lathe with quickly turn one out.
Or order one from Gary.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Oh nice..just ordered some shims and stuff from him...and I think the package is already underway 
drats...should have ordered the solid spacer also. Maybe I can quickly borrow a buddies lathe and whip one up.....
BTW, do you machine them to spec? I'll just machine one a little shorter than the crush sleeve and shim it up.
drats...should have ordered the solid spacer also. Maybe I can quickly borrow a buddies lathe and whip one up.....BTW, do you machine them to spec? I'll just machine one a little shorter than the crush sleeve and shim it up.