Well said

 

Can someone explain to me in a few words why there is such a concern over solid rollers failures? I just don't get it.

 

the tiny roller bearings need constant lubrication. If oil starved, then the roller bearings disintegrate and circulate throughout the motor, wiping out the cam, every bearing, and the oil pump. Inspect the condition of the rollers to prevent lifter failure

 

Roller cams, include the "roller pushrods" and rocker arms too. I dont like any of them for the street. They are racing parts and because you have had some success dont think that a amature out on the road with his Vette is going to know what to do. Cam brake in, If it dont work the very first time it certinally wont work the second time. You have a "race" motor and dont use racing oil? Most people can`t replace a distributor let alone try and stick a roller cam with the necessary valve springs with the appropiate parts and clearances. Now if you had one of these toys or something similar, roller away and I`ll wait for you down at the big end!

"Winning isn`t everything, it`s the only thing"

 

[QUOTE=Ironcross;1558637204]Roller cams, include the "roller pushrods" and rocker arms too. I dont like any of them for the street. They are racing parts and because you have had some success dont think that a amature out on the road with his Vette is going to know what to do. Cam brake in, If it dont work the very first time it certinally wont work the second time. You have a "race" motor and dont use racing oil? Most people can`t replace a distributor let alone try and stick a roller cam with the necessary valve springs with the appropiate parts and clearances. Now if you had one of these toys or something similar, roller away and I`ll wait for you down at the big end!

I am "Old School" too but I chose a hydraulic roller for my car. They are used in most modern engines and are not "race only". I personally would not run a solid roller on a street engine.

 

Perhaps I am slow but I still do not understand why some people here say that 'solid rollers' are prone to failure on a street engine but 'Hydraulic Rollers' are fine. Don't they both have roller bearings?

 

Both have thier flaws. Solid rollers use heavy springs and require periodic adjustment. They are harder on the valvetrain parts because of the heavier spring pressures. The heavy spring pressures also contribute to roller and cam lobe failures. They will spin high RPM over 7000. Hydraulic rollers will give you more power at the same lift and duration over hydraulic flat tappet usually 30 to 50 HP. They are limited to sub 6000 RPM unless you go with a rev kit which will give you another 500 or so RPM. Hydraulic rollers are used on a lot of OEM applications, require no adjustment once they are set and use lighter springs for extended valvetrain life. On a street engine I would use a hydraulic roller but some on here are using solid roller with good luck.

 

I do agree with you on some points and if your intention is to stop someone without enough experience from putting in a solid roller cam then I applaud you. I do the same thing, I explain they are not a drop in a forget about deal. They require constant monitoring and checks to make sure everything is OK. I like to do this, it is my hobby so there is no question why I would put one in.

I believe the only reason my motor makes the power it does andbehave well on the street in traffic, is because of the cam. THe big cam companies make "street" roller now with lower spring pressures and the cams can live on the street. YOu have to remember not to let idle too long but other than that they are great on street. I also believe that the solid roller makes more power than any other comparable duration cam and not just peak power but a nice flat torque curve.

Roller rockers and roller cams have been in production vehicles for decades now so they are getting pretty reliable. My mother's minivan has a roller cam in it, I don' t let her read your posts so she doesn't get
scared

 

I actually agree w/ Ironcross here. Solid rollers *are* race fare, and should not be used casually. Solid rollers *will* degrade over time, and if not caught in time, will cause catastrophic engine failure.

Idling, and not revs, is what kills solid rollers on the street. The combination of 600+ lb open spring forces, aggressive ramps often not designed for street duty combine to ultimately pulverize the roller bearing needles. Some get only a couple thousand street miles, others exceed 10 and 15K miles. But they WILL wear.

Keeping track of lash is the single most important item is monitoring solid roller lifter wear. If you run a solid roller cam, especially on the street, you must rigorously and regularly check and record lash. If you find your lash is growing, chances are the lifter is going away. Annual inspections are also in order. This does require you to pull the intake manifold, remove lifters and visually check as well as feel for smooth operation. A gritty or loose roller means time to replace.

There is a fair amount of solid roller development in progress to address the issue of long term reliability. Crower, Isky and now Comp have pressurized pin oiling as an option. This improves lifetime, but is not a cure. Schubeck has a unique ceramic Roller-X design that not only does away with the needle bearing, but the axle as well. Unfortunately there have been supply issues w/ the ceramic material, and reports he may be closing up shop.

Isky has a new design that replaces the needle bearings with a bushing. Development results look promising. And Performance Research has a new “Ball Roller Lifter” that employs a hardened wheel not unlike the Schubeck Roller-X.

Hydraulic roller cams do not require nearly the spring of a solid cam. Hydraulic rollers, albeit heavy and not prone to high rpm operation, do not wear like solid roller lifters. Otherwise you would not see OEM’s exclusively use hydraulic roller cams in today’s cars.

I run a solid roller cam in my Corvette. I am meticulous about checking lash, and treat these roller lifters as a consumable item. I currently have approx 5000 miles on mine and although lash has remained rock solid, I will pull the intake and carefully inspect all the lifters before running the car this spring.

Back to Ironcross’ point: if you are not educated about the wear characteristics and potential destruction a failed solid roller can wreak on an engine; aren’t willing to treat solid roller lifters as a consumable item; and not willing or capable of the necessary maintenance and inspection, you’d be better served to pass on the solid roller and move on to a flat tappet or hydraulic roller setup.

My 2 cents.

Mark

PS Solid roller cams are the unquestioned HP kings in OHV engine designs

 

Well said Mark..

 

Why does a hydraulic roller need a rev limiter? I'm new to roller cams so thats the reason for the questions. I could maintain a solid but like everybody says, it's a pain to take care of. A hydraulic roller sounds like the way to go but are the RPM's of a hydraulic limited?

 

Reading all the replies, me thinks some replies need clarification....

Not all solid rollers are race cams, thus eliminating the heavy springs. There are options when choosing a tame solid roller that will see life on the street....spring pressure 400-450# open, gross lift between .600 - .650, duration @50 in the range of 240 - 250.
Cams will idle at 800 and give 13 - 15 inches of vacuum.

I do agree that the solid rollers that are designed for strip applications should see strip competition, not boulevard travel.

We have the best of both worlds....hydraulic rollers for the guy who does not want to mess with the motor, and solid roller designed for street apps for the guy who likes to get his finger nails burnt on hot motor oil.

 

I was done with this thread but problems with any roller is the weight of the lifter including all the monkey linkage keeping them straight results in necessary higher spring pressure needed to keep the roller following the cams profile or else bouncing and beating the lifter roller apart. Then there is the issue of rev kits to help avoid a lifter bounce at higher RPM`s. More junk! The lighter the valve train the better it will be. It gets much heavier with the roller stuff. I do think the subject was presented adequately and one must decide for themselves.

PS, I do use the roller junk in my Chrysler fuel engines,

 

Come on guys cant we all just bring all our rollers together?

 

Nah......the rev kits are not needed on the street set ups, nor the bronze distributor gears.

Welcome to the 21st Century....

 

There is a big danger in running a spring that is too light in a solid roller application. Lofting the solid roller lifter over the nose at high revs (think of a ski jump) and the attendant hammering upon landing will degrade the roller needles faster than idling. Solid rollers are relatively heavy (not as heavy as hydraulic rollers however) and need good springs to keep the roller wheel in intimate contact w/ the cam lobe at all times. Some people think they can skirt the idling issue by running a mild spring – bad idea. Street roller cams don’t require quite the spring a race roller does; nonetheless they still need good springs to eliminate lofting. And cam suppliers are putting out street roller grinds with more lift and intensity than before.

This is also why some cam suppliers and engine builders still recommend running a rev kit – to help keep the lifter planted on the lobe at all times. Talk to different suppliers and builders and some are vocal advocates of rev kits, others think they are not necessary. I don’t currently run one as they are not compatible w/ the Crower cutaway lifters I’m running.

Another maintenance item I forgot to mention previously is the regular monitoring of spring force. This should be done at least annually, if not biannually depending on usage. Look for changes over baseline, and shim or replace as necessary.

Solid rollers make HP no doubt, but that performance comes at a price.

Mark

 

Mark...you're on a roll today!!! Good stuff!!

Isn't it funny how things progress....we're all greedy!

You start with a 427 and a flat tappet Hyd...then you go to a solid flat tappet so you can rev....then you go to a 454 with a hyd flat tappet so you don't have to set valves....then you go to a solid roller...so you can rev....then you go to a hyd roller so you don't have to set valves..then you find out you're slow....so you decide to build a 496 with a flat tappet....

Then you find out a 496 will rev great with a solid flat tappet and make more power....

Then rinse and repeat all the above....

Then you go to a 540.....start over....

Then a 572....start over....

Now we figure a 632 with a flat tappet will be killer...don't want to rev that sucker to high.....it will make tons of power at Hyd cam rpm ranges....

Then we figure out a 632 at 7000 rpm is a LOT more fun than a 632 at 5500 rpm...

And here we go again!!


JIM

 

There is also the danger running a spring that is too heavy for the street roller, as the excess spring pressure will break the cam. Keep in mind, the solid street rollers are not cut from billet stock. The springs to use are the springs designed for that cam. 450# may sound light when compared to a 800# spring for a .700 - .800 inch lift roller, but then again, this discussion is about a street roller, not a roller made for competition. Two different animals, worlds appart.

 

Jim, I was wondering when you were going to add to this. Evidently it was too tempting once you saw Mark was posting.

I might be in the minority here but I have a solid street roller in my '67 small block car and just love it. I have about 2000 miles on it since I replaced the hydraulic roller with the solid roller. I recently checked the lash and everything was perfect. I am using the Comp Cams Endure-X lifters per Jim's recommendation.

On the other end of the spectrum is my '67 with the 632. This motor has a cam with over .800" lift and valve springs with 900# of open pressure. I have been driving it on the street for the last 2 years with zero problems. I am using Crower solid roller lifters with the HIPPO option. I check the valve adjustment about once a month wihile I am driving the car and remove the lifters at the same time. Again, the lifters are perfect. All of my driving is low rpm street driving with lots of idling and very little - almost non-existant - WOT driving.

Speaking of a "632 at 7000 rpm", I've got my '67 with the 632 on the DynoJet right now and am planning to make a few runs this Saturday. It's been a few years since I "exercised" it and I am getting prepared for my nitrous installation.

Steve

 

Steve, out of curiosity, are you using oil restrictors?