Will a cylinder hone work for this?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
Will a cylinder hone work for this?
I am getting ready to disassemble (pull the rotating assembly) the block that I am using for a 383. I has about 5,000 miles on it since a rebuild and bore .030 over. I put the dial caliper on it last night and everything measure correctly. When I got the block, there was a slight ridge at the top of the cylinder. It was a black looking residue (probably some carbon from combustion) that did not appear to be the typical ridge from wear. So, I took a shop rag, some WD-40 (and an occasional steel wool pad) and removed some of the residue. Some of the cylinders were cleaned completely. Some of the cylinders have most of this removed. Yet, some a some of the cylinders were more stubborn and would not clean up with the rag.
I went out today and got one of those cylinder hones with the 3 stones that goes on the end of the power drill. I figured that a pass or two with this thing in each of the cylinders will clean them up. I have never used one of these before. Is this the right thing to do, or does anyone have any other ideas?
I went out today and got one of those cylinder hones with the 3 stones that goes on the end of the power drill. I figured that a pass or two with this thing in each of the cylinders will clean them up. I have never used one of these before. Is this the right thing to do, or does anyone have any other ideas?
Racer
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
From: Colebrook Connecticut
btw the ridge is normal wear.
you can also buy a ridge cutter then hone the cylinder.
like this here:
http://www.monstronix.com/lis36500-p-54018.html
you can also buy a ridge cutter then hone the cylinder.
like this here:
http://www.monstronix.com/lis36500-p-54018.html
Last edited by rabiddawg; Feb 8, 2007 at 06:28 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
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From: Forked River NJ
rabiddawg: I see you are from Colebrook Ct. Not many people reside there. I have a borther in law and sister in law from there. I used to hunt a little up at the Coon club many moons ago. I'll bet it is a little cold there right now. 
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
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I think he wants to refinish the bores (an absolute must if the new rings want a chance to seal) the carbon will come off w/ the bubble hone, it'll also come off by rubbing w/ a scotch pad and some atf but then you still have glazed up bores. If there's only 5K miles on it after a proper rebuild there shouldn't be a ridge or the need to use the reamer (and risk messing up a perfectly good block)
Racer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
From: Onley VA
I think he wants to refinish the bores (an absolute must if the new rings want a chance to seal) the carbon will come off w/ the bubble hone, it'll also come off by rubbing w/ a scotch pad and some atf but then you still have glazed up bores. If there's only 5K miles on it after a proper rebuild there shouldn't be a ridge or the need to use the reamer (and risk messing up a perfectly good block)
If the ridge or any other small scraches can not be felt by running your fingernail across them then a properly done hone job will work, of course as long as the clearances check out.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
OK, here are some pictures. The first one is of a cylinder where most of the residue came off. The second one is one that didn't come off as well.
I saw that bubble hone in an earlier thread that Durango Boy did, but I thought those were about $100.00. Is that true?
I saw that bubble hone in an earlier thread that Durango Boy did, but I thought those were about $100.00. Is that true?
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,057
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From: Concord Calif
I think he wants to refinish the bores (an absolute must if the new rings want a chance to seal) the carbon will come off w/ the bubble hone, it'll also come off by rubbing w/ a scotch pad and some atf but then you still have glazed up bores. If there's only 5K miles on it after a proper rebuild there shouldn't be a ridge or the need to use the reamer (and risk messing up a perfectly good block)
Removing the cabon is one thing that is not hard to do. But if your looking for some good HP increase also here, have the block rehoned with deck plates. Even if it was done 5000 miles ago it will be better now. Most all pro Stock teams will run a motor on the dyno for a while and then rehone for better ring seal and 40 to 50 more hp out at thier level. I do this on all fresh bore jobs on all my race engines and have seen 50 or more hp on the dyno qith no other changes in the engine. But I have only seen this work on the second hone job. Seems after boreing and power honeing you stress the block, even with plates on it. And when the engine has been through a few heart cycles it takes on a different set, That why the second hone job works. The average person would never do this because of all the added work, but you have the chance to do this. Manuel
Racer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 417
Likes: 40
From: Swansea IL
Just Carbon
From the looks of your pics, (and 5K miles) I don't think you have any ridge. Just a carbon ring.
Take the ATF and a red scotchbrite pad and remove them. All you need here is elbow grease!
If rebuilding, get one of the ball type hones and freshen up the cross hatching. The cylinders will be as good as they were 5K miles ago.
The three stone hones are serious business and should be used with deck plates. Unless you are making serious upgrades to the engine, I would hold short there.
If you are planning on a lot of changes to the engine for HP, then have a pro shop do a torque plate hone on the block. Well worth the bucks if you are going that route.
Bob
Take the ATF and a red scotchbrite pad and remove them. All you need here is elbow grease!
If rebuilding, get one of the ball type hones and freshen up the cross hatching. The cylinders will be as good as they were 5K miles ago.
The three stone hones are serious business and should be used with deck plates. Unless you are making serious upgrades to the engine, I would hold short there.
If you are planning on a lot of changes to the engine for HP, then have a pro shop do a torque plate hone on the block. Well worth the bucks if you are going that route.
Bob
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,624
Likes: 431
From: Dale City VA
If you have one of those parts house spring loaded 3 stone hones, do your self (and cyl walls) a favor and take it back. All you will do is screw up the cyl with it. A real A/N or Sunnen hone head has a mechanical cam device to apply pressue on the stones (they have 2 stones and 2 wiper bars) in order to hone with a specific amount of pressure. With the cheesy spring system you have no control over the pressure the stones apply to the cyl wall. You will have a bunch of taper in the cyl, trashing it in no time using one.
The best bet is to take it to a real machinest and have it checked with a dial bore gauge. If its strait and within spec run a ball hone (also called a flex hone) through it for a few passes to make a good cross hatch and put it back together. If it is out of spec and needs to be fixed then have it honed with a real hone like a Sunnen CV616 or Van Norman Power Stroke. I also agree a scotch brite pad and some ATF could go a long way to cleaning a little surface rust and or gunk out of a cyl.
I'm not trying to discorage you from honing the cyl your self, but please do it with a ball hone and send that POS you have back to where it came from. I've had to fix far to many blocks in my life because some one tried to hone them with a spring loaded hone.
Will
The best bet is to take it to a real machinest and have it checked with a dial bore gauge. If its strait and within spec run a ball hone (also called a flex hone) through it for a few passes to make a good cross hatch and put it back together. If it is out of spec and needs to be fixed then have it honed with a real hone like a Sunnen CV616 or Van Norman Power Stroke. I also agree a scotch brite pad and some ATF could go a long way to cleaning a little surface rust and or gunk out of a cyl.
I'm not trying to discorage you from honing the cyl your self, but please do it with a ball hone and send that POS you have back to where it came from. I've had to fix far to many blocks in my life because some one tried to hone them with a spring loaded hone.
Will
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,202
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From: cincinnati ohio
St. Jude Donor '09
I think he wants to refinish the bores (an absolute must if the new rings want a chance to seal) the carbon will come off w/ the bubble hone, it'll also come off by rubbing w/ a scotch pad and some atf but then you still have glazed up bores. If there's only 5K miles on it after a proper rebuild there shouldn't be a ridge or the need to use the reamer (and risk messing up a perfectly good block)
In fact their primary purpose is to remove a ridge that would be large enough to damage the ring lands when removing pistons to be reused.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,112
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From: Florida
It doesn't look like there is any ridge, certainly not enough for a ridge hone.
I would carfeully use the tapered 3 stone hone with the finest stones first. With a lot of fluid and only a few turns, you will see what the ridge situation is. If you have a minor ridge, you are better to remove it first with the 3 stone and then go to the fine ball hone for the crosshatch and cyl finish.
To me the lack of cross hatch and glossyness of those cylinders make me question 5000 miles. What type rings were used?
On the other hand it is best to do what rklessdriver suggested. I assume you want to reuse the pistons. You want to remove as little material as possible, but if straightening is involved you may end up with clearanced bores.
Even with this you can go nuts with laser etching etc. Your money.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
I bought the short block a few months ago. The block is originally a 327 out of a 68 Nova. About 5,000 miles ago, it was converted to a 350 and put in a truck. It was pulled from the truck and replaced with a big block.
I picked up the block to rebuild and put in the Vette. I was originally going to use it as is and put some good heads on it. Then, based on several suggestions, I decided to put different pistons in it to bump the compression ratio. I have now decided to just convert it to a 383.
I picked up the block to rebuild and put in the Vette. I was originally going to use it as is and put some good heads on it. Then, based on several suggestions, I decided to put different pistons in it to bump the compression ratio. I have now decided to just convert it to a 383.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,837
Likes: 1,028
I bought the short block a few months ago. The block is originally a 327 out of a 68 Nova. About 5,000 miles ago, it was converted to a 350 and put in a truck. It was pulled from the truck and replaced with a big block.
I picked up the block to rebuild and put in the Vette. I was originally going to use it as is and put some good heads on it. Then, based on several suggestions, I decided to put different pistons in it to bump the compression ratio. I have now decided to just convert it to a 383.
I picked up the block to rebuild and put in the Vette. I was originally going to use it as is and put some good heads on it. Then, based on several suggestions, I decided to put different pistons in it to bump the compression ratio. I have now decided to just convert it to a 383.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 53,648
Likes: 878
From: Southern Cal Ca
St. Jude Donor '22
My gut says the ring around the bore is oil.
the piston tops also.
I have seen cleaner, also worse.
did you have a compression/leak down number?
At any rate your redoing.
Might check the type/gap compression rings and style
oil rings, I would be interested to hear about them.
383's gooood motors
the piston tops also.
I have seen cleaner, also worse.
did you have a compression/leak down number?
At any rate your redoing.
Might check the type/gap compression rings and style
oil rings, I would be interested to hear about them.
383's gooood motors