Alternator?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 582
Likes: 3
From: Glen Allen (Richmond) Virginia
Alternator?
I have a 69 427 that I am restoring. I will be running dual (Dewitt) fans and was wondering what amperage alterator I should go for. All wire hanesses and cables are brand new and I plan to run the optima battery.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
You can get a high amp SI alt, around 100 amps. Don't be fooled into buying the 135 amp SI because it's not designed to run that high and it'll fail on you.
I suggest to people upgrading their charging system to upgrade to a newer CS style alt. They have more idle amps, and range in amps from 100 to 140.
The install is pretty easy, and cheap.
I suggest to people upgrading their charging system to upgrade to a newer CS style alt. They have more idle amps, and range in amps from 100 to 140.
The install is pretty easy, and cheap.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 695
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From: Ashley Michigan
http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...elcoremy.shtmlI helped my brother upgrade the wiring in his 68 nova to run this setup. I believe we had them look it up for a 84 camaro. It is a 94 amp alternator, and does much better than the old setup with upgraded lighting and the subs he's powering. That site gives alot of info to figure what kind of power output you're going to need. If you aren't running anything else that is going to draw much, I'd say this would probably be the easiest swap.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,837
Likes: 1,028
http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...elcoremy.shtmlI helped my brother upgrade the wiring in his 68 nova to run this setup. I believe we had them look it up for a 84 camaro. It is a 94 amp alternator, and does much better than the old setup with upgraded lighting and the subs he's powering. That site gives alot of info to figure what kind of power output you're going to need. If you aren't running anything else that is going to draw much, I'd say this would probably be the easiest swap.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
I just put dual C4 fans on my 83 truck with Tuned-Port FI. I have a 94 amp SI alternator and with headlights on at idle I have 12.3v. With some RPMs it goes over 13v. I thought 94 amps would be enough, but I'm not so sure now. I have a 120 amp SI from a Police car that needs rebuilding, I think I will swap to that. My Vette has the same fans and a 110amp alternator from an 84-85 C4 and it stays over 13v at idle. Can't speak for Spals, but dual C4 fans pull some serious amps, more than I realized.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,692
Likes: 1,366
Might as well do a CS-144
as long as your upgrading....
The 96 Impala SS 5.7L VIN-P, is one place you search for an alternator. You can enter part number 321-594 or 334-2401 in the AC Delco website below and see what they look like. It even gives you a list of cars that all used this thing.
I had a hard time locating a 96 Impala SS in the boneyard, so I got one off a 99 Lumina equivalent (AC Delco 321-1144)....it's a got goofy 3rd ear which I lopped off...but for 20 bucks I wasn't complaining...since this was just gonna be an experiment.
Below is a previous post I made and some more info:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1635804
About the goofy 321-1144, according to the napa website they put out 150 amps and they're CS-144's. They also bolt right up and they're on bunches of cars...and they look ok once you lop off the goofy third ear.
Enter this part number in the NAPA website (non NAPA part number) and you can read about them and see a picture of them: 321-1144
http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPage...spx?PageId=100
In the AC Delco website below you can see what vehicles these units came on. Lots of cars too!
http://198.208.187.182/internet/Vehi...&part=321-1144
The 96 Impala SS 5.7L VIN-P, is one place you search for an alternator. You can enter part number 321-594 or 334-2401 in the AC Delco website below and see what they look like. It even gives you a list of cars that all used this thing.
I had a hard time locating a 96 Impala SS in the boneyard, so I got one off a 99 Lumina equivalent (AC Delco 321-1144)....it's a got goofy 3rd ear which I lopped off...but for 20 bucks I wasn't complaining...since this was just gonna be an experiment.
Below is a previous post I made and some more info:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1635804
About the goofy 321-1144, according to the napa website they put out 150 amps and they're CS-144's. They also bolt right up and they're on bunches of cars...and they look ok once you lop off the goofy third ear.
Enter this part number in the NAPA website (non NAPA part number) and you can read about them and see a picture of them: 321-1144
http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPage...spx?PageId=100
In the AC Delco website below you can see what vehicles these units came on. Lots of cars too!
http://198.208.187.182/internet/Vehi...&part=321-1144
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Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
I have had a SI17 on my car for years now, been exchanged with AZ under lifetime warrenty for a couple of go rounds.....it's a 108 amp rated unit, and larger diameter than the 10-12 SI stock on a vette....so the cooling is superior, and
I just got my dual spals installed, they really suck as in another thread....blows the oil right off the engine....serious...
anyway, I can run with a/c on high, obviously both spals at full speed, as I just have a single on/off relay, TPI computer controlled, headlights on....late camaro halogen bulbs, turn on my relay controlled driving/fog lights, and at idle it still hit about 12.5 volts....damn close....when I take off again, it's at 13+ volts....as in full charge to battery.....
SO FAR, I am disinclined to switch to a newer more notorious design....
have had to change several on various cars....those CS series just not good overall design.....and that unfortunately included the 144.....
I just got my dual spals installed, they really suck as in another thread....blows the oil right off the engine....serious...
anyway, I can run with a/c on high, obviously both spals at full speed, as I just have a single on/off relay, TPI computer controlled, headlights on....late camaro halogen bulbs, turn on my relay controlled driving/fog lights, and at idle it still hit about 12.5 volts....damn close....when I take off again, it's at 13+ volts....as in full charge to battery.....
SO FAR, I am disinclined to switch to a newer more notorious design....
have had to change several on various cars....those CS series just not good overall design.....and that unfortunately included the 144.....
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
I can say after doing a lot of reading and a lot of question asking, that there is NOTHING wrong with a CS144 that can't go wrong with an SI. They run cool, are built to run 100+ amps all day long, and have a HIGHER idle output than most other alts including the super high output after market alts.
The CS130 has a flaw of over heating. I spoke with a few people, and dug into a few of these units and found the reason. A black plastic disk that's pretty easy to remove, and fixes the over heating problem.
Other than that, they is no great reason to switch to a CS other than the added effort of changing plugs.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
OK, MAYBE I can drop my hard-on over the CS alts.....when time comes I may well go to the 144, depending on price.....
still think cooling is a matter of airflow, and THAT is through the backside into the front and out.....but if that alt is above exhaust systems like our V8s.....it get super heated air from the headers, andthen tries to pull it FORWARD, like any other alt, and that fights the normal airflow, with a restricted space to allow any passage....the thing has NO chance.......
this is MY take on it....most of the 144's are mounted transverse on the 'cool' side of the engine, sucking sideways exhaust in front, induction on backside...alt near the backside/firewall...
still think cooling is a matter of airflow, and THAT is through the backside into the front and out.....but if that alt is above exhaust systems like our V8s.....it get super heated air from the headers, andthen tries to pull it FORWARD, like any other alt, and that fights the normal airflow, with a restricted space to allow any passage....the thing has NO chance.......
this is MY take on it....most of the 144's are mounted transverse on the 'cool' side of the engine, sucking sideways exhaust in front, induction on backside...alt near the backside/firewall...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
No offense, but if it was truly that easy GM would have done that already. The improved versions with bigger bearings do seem to last better, but I will never retrofit one in my car. Maybe a CS144, but not a 130. Sorry once, er twice, er three times, four-however many times burned, forever shy. I am hard core GM, but that was not a good alternator. My .02
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
No offense, but if it was truly that easy GM would have done that already. The improved versions with bigger bearings do seem to last better, but I will never retrofit one in my car. Maybe a CS144, but not a 130. Sorry once, er twice, er three times, four-however many times burned, forever shy. I am hard core GM, but that was not a good alternator. My .02
I think I know why they did it, from the way it looks, and they never fixed it because they were leaving that design.
Almost every alternator rebuilder I have spoken to removes that disc or leaves it out of the rebuild for specifically that reason. None of them have seen any of their rebuilt ones burn up, and they all agree that they run cooler without that disc. Easy fix, and considering a NEW CS130 is only $70 shipped...it's a good way to get cheap power.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 582
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From: Glen Allen (Richmond) Virginia
I think I know why they did it, from the way it looks, and they never fixed it because they were leaving that design.
Almost every alternator rebuilder I have spoken to removes that disc or leaves it out of the rebuild for specifically that reason. None of them have seen any of their rebuilt ones burn up, and they all agree that they run cooler without that disc. Easy fix, and considering a NEW CS130 is only $70 shipped...it's a good way to get cheap power.
Almost every alternator rebuilder I have spoken to removes that disc or leaves it out of the rebuild for specifically that reason. None of them have seen any of their rebuilt ones burn up, and they all agree that they run cooler without that disc. Easy fix, and considering a NEW CS130 is only $70 shipped...it's a good way to get cheap power.
Last edited by coinwasher; Mar 13, 2007 at 09:47 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Okay, they seem to have gone up a tad, but $86 shipped is still a GREAT deal for a NEW CS130 with the correct case for a C3.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/105-A...QQcmdZViewItem
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
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From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
OK, MAYBE I can drop my hard-on over the CS alts.....when time comes I may well go to the 144, depending on price.....
still think cooling is a matter of airflow, and THAT is through the backside into the front and out.....but if that alt is above exhaust systems like our V8s.....it get super heated air from the headers, andthen tries to pull it FORWARD, like any other alt, and that fights the normal airflow, with a restricted space to allow any passage....the thing has NO chance.......
this is MY take on it....most of the 144's are mounted transverse on the 'cool' side of the engine, sucking sideways exhaust in front, induction on backside...alt near the backside/firewall...
still think cooling is a matter of airflow, and THAT is through the backside into the front and out.....but if that alt is above exhaust systems like our V8s.....it get super heated air from the headers, andthen tries to pull it FORWARD, like any other alt, and that fights the normal airflow, with a restricted space to allow any passage....the thing has NO chance.......
this is MY take on it....most of the 144's are mounted transverse on the 'cool' side of the engine, sucking sideways exhaust in front, induction on backside...alt near the backside/firewall...
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,112
Likes: 28
From: Florida
OK, MAYBE I can drop my hard-on over the CS alts.....when time comes I may well go to the 144, depending on price.....
still think cooling is a matter of airflow, and THAT is through the backside into the front and out.....but if that alt is above exhaust systems like our V8s.....it get super heated air from the headers, andthen tries to pull it FORWARD, like any other alt, and that fights the normal airflow, with a restricted space to allow any passage....the thing has NO chance.......
this is MY take on it....most of the 144's are mounted transverse on the 'cool' side of the engine, sucking sideways exhaust in front, induction on backside...alt near the backside/firewall...
still think cooling is a matter of airflow, and THAT is through the backside into the front and out.....but if that alt is above exhaust systems like our V8s.....it get super heated air from the headers, andthen tries to pull it FORWARD, like any other alt, and that fights the normal airflow, with a restricted space to allow any passage....the thing has NO chance.......
this is MY take on it....most of the 144's are mounted transverse on the 'cool' side of the engine, sucking sideways exhaust in front, induction on backside...alt near the backside/firewall...
The CS144 overcame a lot of the problems of the 130's and don't forget they are mounted normall in a lot of vehicles too.
The biggest problem was the regulaters burning out and that was mostly with the remans. Oem GM and Bosche remanufactured units supposedly did not use the reverse engineered regulators and didn't have the problems.