Keep your nuts on....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 581
Likes: 60
From: USA
I've seen nuts that have ribbing machined into them. the washer-faced nuts that you get with windage-tray stud sets, like from ARP. yes they do work, but when you ever have to untighten them, they do some slight gouging of the surface, but that's not a problem because then the nut covers that when reinstalled. They are indeed effective.
for those applications where you absolutely, positively can't have it come loose, I use either a castellated nut with a cotter pin, or safety wire through a drilled 1/16" hole, or for lower-stress applications a nyloc nut.
not sure if I could afford to stock Nord-Locks in the kinds of quantities I like to keep handy so that when you need one, it's right there. Maybe they got a variety combo pack for 1/4" through 1/2".
for those applications where you absolutely, positively can't have it come loose, I use either a castellated nut with a cotter pin, or safety wire through a drilled 1/16" hole, or for lower-stress applications a nyloc nut.
not sure if I could afford to stock Nord-Locks in the kinds of quantities I like to keep handy so that when you need one, it's right there. Maybe they got a variety combo pack for 1/4" through 1/2".
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 929
Likes: 5
From: Marietta GA
OK. I just bought a number of these washers in different sizes to re-assemble my rear suspension. When I dis-assembled the rear suspension some of the nuts (not too many) were completely loose or had loosened up some. I did the rear suspension work the last time (15 yrs. ago) and it is my practice to properly torque things etc. so I know the bolts were on right initially.
Bottom line, it cost me $80 for the washers (not cheap) but I am hoping it makes for a safer situation. I figure, in the scheme of things, $80 isn't cheap but compared to the $1000's I have spent so far, it isn't that much.
I'll re-post with my experience if anyone is interested.
Bottom line, it cost me $80 for the washers (not cheap) but I am hoping it makes for a safer situation. I figure, in the scheme of things, $80 isn't cheap but compared to the $1000's I have spent so far, it isn't that much.
I'll re-post with my experience if anyone is interested.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
I can tell you that I've seen many many occasions where a bolt has come loose with a split lockwasher strickly due to a little vibration. The analogy of cannon and Nord-lock is not quite accurate. They're not that expensive. It's also about safety and that is worth the cost.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 929
Likes: 5
From: Marietta GA
I'm Batman, it has happened to me. Not very often though (but a few of my rear suspension bolts were loose). It seems that the Nord-Lock washers have been subjected to rigorous vibration testing. I say "seems" because most of the literature seems to be coming from Nord-Lock. Nonetheless, the concept seems appealing and it appears to have gained use in the railway industry.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
I'm Batman, it has happened to me. Not very often though (but a few of my rear suspension bolts were loose). It seems that the Nord-Lock washers have been subjected to rigorous vibration testing. I say "seems" because most of the literature seems to be coming from Nord-Lock. Nonetheless, the concept seems appealing and it appears to have gained use in the railway industry.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 929
Likes: 5
From: Marietta GA
I'm not aware of a seminar. The information I saw was on the internet. I have an engineer friend that works at MARTA (Metro Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority) and he said that the rail division uses these washers and he has heard that they work. Vibration in the rail cars and on the tracks is a major issue.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,429
Likes: 20
From: Kingston Ontario
It sounds like your undoing fasteners that have a little added help of rust and dirt to keep them on. Split lockwashers are flat when torqued as opposed to ribbed like a nordloc, the bolts will slip on a flat surface given enough vibration. The engineers at our plant went to a seminar, I don't know if it was actually a Nordloc seminar but the general consensus is to remove all the split lockwashers out of the plant and replace with Nordloc. Overkill ....maybe...insurance? Yes. A machine breaks you just repair it, your suspension falls apart, it's your health and cash involved.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,441
Likes: 0
I took some shots of the front suspension area of my late model P/U, I didn't see any lock-washers used under there, maybe there is something to this. All the bolt's used were of the same flange design, not a lock-washer in sight. They were a single piece design, not two piece like the Nordlocs.
The close-up of the bolt is not from the same vehicle as in the first two pics, it's a 2002 model. It's one that held one of those tie down rings used by manufacturers to secure cars in shipping, I removed the rear rings some time ago to fit a trailer hitch.
The close-up of the bolt is not from the same vehicle as in the first two pics, it's a 2002 model. It's one that held one of those tie down rings used by manufacturers to secure cars in shipping, I removed the rear rings some time ago to fit a trailer hitch.
Last edited by shafrs3; Jun 27, 2007 at 02:58 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
It sounds like your undoing fasteners that have a little added help of rust and dirt to keep them on. Split lockwashers are flat when torqued as opposed to ribbed like a nordloc, the bolts will slip on a flat surface given enough vibration. The engineers at our plant went to a seminar, I don't know if it was actually a Nordloc seminar but the general consensus is to remove all the split lockwashers out of the plant and replace with Nordloc. Overkill ....maybe...insurance? Yes. A machine breaks you just repair it, your suspension falls apart, it's your health and cash involved.
I have a strange habit of combining nylock (or Type C all-metal) nuts with splitlocks and locktite, anyway...
Race Director
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 10,643
Likes: 8
From: Foxfield CO 1970 Convertible
The ones that really seem to work for me are those nuts with a rectangular impression on the side. They start easily, but then require a wrench to get them on all the way. They are kind of "self-locking."
I also like the flanged flattened hex headed bolts.
I also like the flanged flattened hex headed bolts.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,429
Likes: 20
From: Kingston Ontario
As we rebuild our cars, clean bolts, fresh painted parts and pieces our bolts might as well have the best out there. The bolts shoulders in the previous pics aren't ribbed at all and see...no lock washers. Strickly torque and bolt stretch holding them. With Nordloc the bolt will have to stretch significantly or break to overcome the bevels in the washer.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,752
Likes: 4
From: Austin Texas
I've been wrenching for a long time, both mechanical and collision. I never see original hardware come loose. I do make it a habit to use new lock-washers anytime I pull an old assembly apart. Quality lock-washers will have edges that will dig into the nut and the opposing surface.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,441
Likes: 0
And friction from the added surface contact. Loosen one of these fasteners and you feel that initial pop as it breaks loose.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
The only time I've seen loose fasteners in any of my family's vehicles were after stops at so-called "professional" service shops.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
Amen. Had a caliper nearly come completely off of my STS after pads were replaced by a "pro" service shop. Some bargain... Lucky I just happened to be pulling into a parking at the time.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
