Damn where are all these pontiacs at, I went to the 1/8th mile
night drags last weekend, counted about twelve fords and about
five billion big block a small block chevys, couple of chryslers.
they had a **** load of single carb big block chevy dragsters.
I did see a 68 firebird but it had a small block chevy in it.

 

Glen I could easily see that....When I went from 3.42s to 3.90s, I gained NOTHING and lost a mph. So then I want to an Ultradyne solid from my Ult hyd flat, I went from a 231/239@.050 to a 255/260@.050 to try to gain some on the back half and lost 3 mph and 3 tenths...Hell I lost 2 tenths in the 60'. The setup I was running in my DD was a 10-1 compression, 406" pontiac, Ultradyne hyd flat 231/239, 69' #16 heads, street ported, prolly flowed like 180cfm on the intake, torquer II with a 1" spacer/750DP, 3200 stall and 3.42 gears ran 11.80-12.0s@108-110mph in a 3700lb raceweight. It still had stock cast rods with good bolts, I spun it to 6k all the time. Eventually I put the solid cam and steeper gears in it and it slowed to 12.60s... So I went back to the hyd flat cam, and went to lower compression 78' 6x heads that were also street ported.(wanted to spray it) Now the compression was barely 8-1 and it still ran 12.80s@104 on motor, I also had a 175hp then to 250hp shot on it but I ran out of gear at the 1000' and could never make full runs....it was running 11.50s@117 on the spray coasting through the traps from the 1000'. No doubt it would have ran 10.80s had I changed the gears in the rear and went to a slightly tighter converter..


Little Mouse, I think the reason you never see pontiacs at the strip is because to me, it seems like most pontiac owners are a different breed and not as performance driven. They would rather talk about old racers from the 60s and the type of wax they use. I think the reason racers started using the BBCs so much was because of the much better flowing heads and bullet proof bottom ends. Obviously the SBs are physically smaller, easy to work on, weigh a 100# less(then a pontiac).

Another WAY underestimated engine is the Buick 455...I have a buddy with 85 Regal with a 455. It still runs ported stg 2 heads, hyd flat cam, TA intake and Th350 w3500 stall. That car runs 11.20s NA. it is stripped though, prolly weighs 3000lbs

 

Post the numbers off the block.
Eddie

 

I haven't seen the motor yet, I'm supposed to be getting pictures sometime this morning, but since it's in the car the casting numbers won't be visible. Yesterday she did tell me that she was '99% sure' that it was a chevy motor. If the pictures come in, I'll post them up here so you all can take a look. I'm pretty sure that if it's a chevy motor I'm gonna pull the trigger on this deal regardless, because the price is tough to beat.

 

A lot of us "old" Pontiac guys are driving Corvettes now. A stock 1970 GTO Ram Air III 4-speed with slicks would run low 13's. Ram Air IV's were deep into the 12's, right there with the Chevelle LS6.

 

Hand's book is a must read for anyone building a Pontiac.
KRE heads is what I was trying to remember. Are they really that much better than the Edlebrocks as stated?

 

There are still some people building Pontiacs. About twice a month I get calls from some guy that wants to build his Firebird engine. A lot of the things I tell them, from what I learned in the 80's, is in Jim Hand's book.

I just remembered, the first car I raced with the old 327 sb in my 64 was a GTO 70 Ram Air. Guess who won?

 

'

If the old wedge headed pontiac, FE fords, and 440 chrysler are
competitive with the big block chevy why are they not being used,
where are they??

 

One of my first cars to drive was my dads new 69 W-30 or w-31 ram air 455 cutlass supreme. That car could smoke the tires for a long ways. It was in the top 10 of factory hot rods ever built back then. I used to kick a few 389 tri-power GTO's All big car names GM, Ford, Chrysler the over 420 cubic inch motors had high HP versions back then. Some of the Ford 427,428,429's were really fast cars.

Anyway, I did love the 455 Olds. The only change on that motor was Headers/big duals out to Thrush glass packs. The sad ending to that car was in the late 70's long after i left home a younger brother crashed it and they left it outside the garage for some reason and the block crack when it went way below "ZERO" because the DS didn't have enough antifreeze in it. They didn't know how valuable that car real was. The only thing better than the W-30 option car was the Hurst Olds package.

 

Probably ought to add in the 390's. My uncle had a '69 Mustang that was evil.

 

I'd venture a guess that the car w/ 3.90s ran better 60' and 660' ETs, but ran-outta steam on the top-end, and actually 'lost-ground' the further it went:
when you have a good low-end TQ-monster like Ponchos, they don't NEED (or want ) to turn high RPM, and they are better-off suited at lower RPM, where they can 'grunt' to the finish-line.





an ex brother-inlaw stuffed a very mild (standard ring & bearing rebuild, with a Crower cam, Holley carb & headers ) 455 Buick into his 3200-pound '66 Skylark, and it ran 12.50s on street-tires, through the pipes w/ 3.55-gears:
another buddy had a high-compression 455 in his 4600-pound (with all power-accesories/options, and full heavily-padded seats & interior ) '67 Buick Wildcat that carried the front tires off the line with puny 28" x 9" slicks out-back, ran 12.10s @ 115 MPH, and we agreed that NO-car that large should run that quick:
the car won 5 Track Championships in 7 years, several thousands of dollars in prize-money, and bracket-races throughout S.W. Pa., Ohio, West by-Gawd Virjinnie, and Maryland in the 1980s.

 

Jim Butler is THE Pontiac engine guru. He is the Scott Shafiroff of the pontiac world..

Also Len Williams, Jim Hand, Bruce Fulper and a few others.

Pontiacs are oddballs, no doubt about it. They may not have easy 9 sec capability but I do believe if you want to put your street car in the 11s the easiest/cheapest and be mild enough to only run a 3000 stall and 3.73 or taller(lower numbers) gears, they are the route to go. Especially now with all the aftermarket stuff for them.

 

Pontiac engine?

Yes Butler is the guru.

The Pontiac 400 & 455's can be first rate engines. I'm at heart a Chevy guy but I'll give Pontiac it's due. I like the engine. With a good set of aftermarket heads, the Pontiac engines can be first rate.

When it comes to heads, today I'm not a fan of Ram Air cylinder heads because they pretty much either belong in a on a collector's car, a museam, or a junk yard. Thirty years ago sure, they were the cat's meow for Pontaic engines but not anymore. Why do people still insist on using this junk on strip cars? They act like they are the top notch Pontiac cylinder head in 2007 and of course they aren't. Cylinder heads are pretty much the key part of the engine when it comes to power.

The old Ram Air cylinder heads just hold back a really good engine. Friend of mine has Ram Air IV heads, that had been fully ported for max air flow. The mid lift numbers were nothing special and they peaked at like 265 cfm. Yes, 265 cfm. Some of the aftermarket Pontaic heads can do over 400 cfm.

The car is pretty much an all out race car, with cage, transbrake, tubbed etc. It would be faster with better heads. His car is just begging for a decent head of modern aftermarket cylinder heads.

I'll never understand the vintage Pontiac communities fasination with RAM AIR II, III, & IV cylinder heads in the 21st Century.

If I ever get around to owning a 77-78 Trans Am and do an engine for the car, it will have after market heads.