bad starter?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: Adrian MI
bad starter?
Sooo my car won't start... engine won't turn over, no clicking, nothing. I'm thinking it needs to take a breather as I've been driving it all day, if that doesn't work, anything else I can do before I start replacing stuff?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: Adrian MI
It was actually my fiance that broke it (seriously), so I'm not at the car, but according to him the battery is fine because the radio and lights work fine, it's a new battery too... less than a month old. The car had only been off for a couple minutes.
Drifting
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,480
Likes: 2
From: Circleville Ohio
Vader Vette
Starter My 77 did the same thing on the way back from lex.Ky One time stopped for gas jumped in no starter got underneath smacked it with A hammer and she turned right over. got the starter re-built.. nooo problem after that.
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Quebec Quebec
I've had the same problem. New battery, no clicking, radio and electricy has worked well. It has happened when the engine was hot and runned for a while. Maybe a hot starter needs more power? The first time it happened, i just played with battery cables and the car started well. The second time that happened i was not far from my home, so i left the car sit for a few hours and the car started well without touching the cable. The last time that it happened, i played with battery cables and the car started well. I tried to fix the cables, but they are loosen by themselves.
Good luck c3 Melissa
Good luck c3 Melissa
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,812
Likes: 2,029
From: eastern NC
I would recommend that before you start spending money on rebuilding your starter, check to see if you're getting power to the solenoid when you turn the key to the start position. If you are getting power then by all means go after the starter. If you are not getting power then you need to look at the ignition switch.
This is the switch mounted to the top of the column above your ankle, not the key switch at the top of the column. I spent a lot of time and money chasing a starter issue that didn't solve the problem. It too was somewhat intermittent and I had convinced myself it was the starter.
I then spent 5 minutes testing the switch and discovered that it was not fully engaging the start position, so even though I had power to everything else, none was going to the solenoid. I removed the switch and found that it was coming apart and that was why it was not fully engaging the start position. Fixed the switch and no more problems.
Yes these things do have heat soak issues from time to time and the mini starters do a good job as well as some of the heat shields that you can attach to your starter. But if the switch is the issue, all of the money you spend on the starter will not correct the problem.
Good luck... GUSTO
This is the switch mounted to the top of the column above your ankle, not the key switch at the top of the column. I spent a lot of time and money chasing a starter issue that didn't solve the problem. It too was somewhat intermittent and I had convinced myself it was the starter.
I then spent 5 minutes testing the switch and discovered that it was not fully engaging the start position, so even though I had power to everything else, none was going to the solenoid. I removed the switch and found that it was coming apart and that was why it was not fully engaging the start position. Fixed the switch and no more problems.
Yes these things do have heat soak issues from time to time and the mini starters do a good job as well as some of the heat shields that you can attach to your starter. But if the switch is the issue, all of the money you spend on the starter will not correct the problem.
Good luck... GUSTO
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Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
Test the batteries condition before spending any money. If it`s low, and pulling the lights and turning the radio on is not a test. The charging system may be bad and not recharging as you drive. Therefore when you stop, there isn`t enough voltage to crank it over for a restart. A good battery will actually replenish its self with in a short period of time unless it`s very low.
Dint get talked into aftermarket parts and trick setups, the OEM stuff is the best for your enjoyment and reliability.
Dint get talked into aftermarket parts and trick setups, the OEM stuff is the best for your enjoyment and reliability.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: Adrian MI
hey now
it LOVES the pink.Well it ran for a while but wouldn't start later on last night. My mechanic was over working on something else so he checked it out, the brand new battery was almost dead, and turns out the car has the wrong alternator and belt anyway, so we're going to replace those tonight.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
Most of the time these threads about hard starting will go right back to the charging system not the starter. However low voltage from a dead battery will kill a good starter by overheating the armature and fields ruining a otherwise good starter if the battery was not fully charged .
Heat soak is a amatures answer to the problem and always wrong....
Heat soak is a amatures answer to the problem and always wrong....
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Test the batteries condition before spending any money. If it`s low, and pulling the lights and turning the radio on is not a test. The charging system may be bad and not recharging as you drive. Therefore when you stop, there isn`t enough voltage to crank it over for a restart. A good battery will actually replenish its self with in a short period of time unless it`s very low.
Dint get talked into aftermarket parts and trick setups, the OEM stuff is the best for your enjoyment and reliability.
Dint get talked into aftermarket parts and trick setups, the OEM stuff is the best for your enjoyment and reliability.
Most of the time these threads about hard starting will go right back to the charging system not the starter. However low voltage from a dead battery will kill a good starter by overheating the armature and fields ruining a otherwise good starter if the battery was not fully charged .
Heat soak is a amatures answer to the problem and always wrong....
Heat soak is a amatures answer to the problem and always wrong....
The stock starters are heavy, twitchy pieces of junk. Why do you think GM switched to gear reduction starters nearly 20 years ago?The stock copper-plated aluminum battery cables are also total garbage. The new Delco replacement cables are pure copper and made far better than the stock parts.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
Chrysler used gear reduction starters for over 45 years and they are heavy SOB`s. 
Only with the introduction of the small 4 cylinder cars did they go to the lighter imported style starters as a lighter weight saving move. in the middle 70`s. The GM starter your referring to is a permanent magnet starter That will replace both late big blocks and small blocks as similar in performance as the new Ford starters. The newer Vette starters are a breed all by themselves and if I recall correctly they are the gear reduction style.
BTW, that permanent magnet GM starter is a excellent choice to replace those heavy big ones. .... :lol, ...No
Only with the introduction of the small 4 cylinder cars did they go to the lighter imported style starters as a lighter weight saving move. in the middle 70`s. The GM starter your referring to is a permanent magnet starter That will replace both late big blocks and small blocks as similar in performance as the new Ford starters. The newer Vette starters are a breed all by themselves and if I recall correctly they are the gear reduction style.BTW, that permanent magnet GM starter is a excellent choice to replace those heavy big ones. .... :lol, ...No
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Chrysler used gear reduction starters for over 45 years and they are heavy SOB`s. Only with the introduction of the small 4 cylinder cars did they go to the lighter imported style starters as a lighter weight saving move. in the middle 70`s. The GM starter your referring to is a permanent magnet starter That will replace both late big blocks and small blocks as similar in performance as the new Ford starters. The newer Vette starters are a breed all by themselves and if I recall correctly they are the gear reduction style.
BTW, that permanent magnet GM starter is a excellent choice to replace those heavy big ones. .... :lol, ...No
Only with the introduction of the small 4 cylinder cars did they go to the lighter imported style starters as a lighter weight saving move. in the middle 70`s. The GM starter your referring to is a permanent magnet starter That will replace both late big blocks and small blocks as similar in performance as the new Ford starters. The newer Vette starters are a breed all by themselves and if I recall correctly they are the gear reduction style.BTW, that permanent magnet GM starter is a excellent choice to replace those heavy big ones. .... :lol, ...No
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 1
From: SOUTH ELGIN IL
You got yourself a heat soak problem.... unfortunately it will keep creaping up on you when you least want it to - far from home, etc.
I'm surprised, I read most of this and there hasn't been the old "to use a mini starter or not" debate.
Good Luck
I'm surprised, I read most of this and there hasn't been the old "to use a mini starter or not" debate.
Good Luck
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
From: Oxnard/San Luis Obispo CA
I'm not sure why Ironcross is always ripping on mini-starters, but if you have headers chances are that you end up with something like I had with the stock starter where the headers were millimeters from touching the starter.
If you don't have headers, then a stock style starter w/ a heat shield would probably be ok. Otherwise you would most likely have to go the route of a mini. Unless you enjoy a PITA install because of clearance issues. Anyway thats my 2cents based on my experience with both types. Hope it all works out for you.
If you don't have headers, then a stock style starter w/ a heat shield would probably be ok. Otherwise you would most likely have to go the route of a mini. Unless you enjoy a PITA install because of clearance issues. Anyway thats my 2cents based on my experience with both types. Hope it all works out for you.