Pertronix II or POINTS ?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 6
From: Lake Arrowhead - Georgia > 72 Base Coupe & 74 BB Roadster
Pertronix II or POINTS ?
My OM 72 base Coupe had a Pertronix Ignitor II when I bought it 4 years ago. It is still installed. In the last 4 years, I have had my carb (beautifully) rebuilt by Lars.....I have set up my distributor and timing as discussed here on the forum. It always runs "OK" ...... BUT it NEVER runs the same. Sometimes it starts right up when cold....others times it takes 3 or 4 starts to even idle right. Same when hot. It's a "crap shoot". Sometimes when hot, it just shuts off sitting a a stop light. Never idles at the same rpm. I have set and re-set the timing 20 times.
I am thinking about putting in a good set of Napa Points / Condensor just to see if that may be the variable.
Any ideas or opinions ????
I am thinking about putting in a good set of Napa Points / Condensor just to see if that may be the variable.
Any ideas or opinions ????
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,926
Likes: 739
From: Youngstown Ohio
Points are like going back to hand cranks to start the car....antiquated. However, there may still be a problem under the dist. cap, but I would check the carb float level and go from there...
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,883
Likes: 11
From: North Easton Mass
Sounds more like a carb problem than a distributor problem, unless your distributor is in need of a rebuild. If the Pertronix uses the original coil that could also be an issue. The problem with points is that they work fine when new but deteriorate gradually as they wear, but I suspect you would have the same type of erratic performance if you put in points and condenser. Electronic ignitions tend to either work or die.
You might also want to check for other things like vacuum leaks. Vettes have plenty of places for vacuum leaks to occur.
Edit: If Lars rebuilt your carb you can probably eliminate that as the source of the problem. I would focus on a worn distributor, vacuum leak, cracked hose, etc. If your master cylinder has been leaking any brake fluid in to the booster the seal may be shot and you could have a vacuum leak there.
Rick B.
You might also want to check for other things like vacuum leaks. Vettes have plenty of places for vacuum leaks to occur.
Edit: If Lars rebuilt your carb you can probably eliminate that as the source of the problem. I would focus on a worn distributor, vacuum leak, cracked hose, etc. If your master cylinder has been leaking any brake fluid in to the booster the seal may be shot and you could have a vacuum leak there.
Rick B.
Last edited by 72LS1Vette; Aug 15, 2007 at 11:51 PM.
Limping across the line
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,299
Likes: 109
From: Peoria Az
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 14
From: Airdrie Alberta
Also make sure the Pertronix was installed correctly to begin with, you should have between .010 to .060 end play, you can adjust end play with shims.
The electronic ignition shouldn't vary like that, what shap is your timing chain/ motor (high mileage?), fuel system, pressure/filters etc
The electronic ignition shouldn't vary like that, what shap is your timing chain/ motor (high mileage?), fuel system, pressure/filters etc
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 43
From: Eastern US XX
My OM 72 base Coupe had a Pertronix Ignitor II when I bought it 4 years ago. It is still installed. In the last 4 years, I have had my carb (beautifully) rebuilt by Lars.....I have set up my distributor and timing as discussed here on the forum. It always runs "OK" ...... BUT it NEVER runs the same. Sometimes it starts right up when cold....others times it takes 3 or 4 starts to even idle right. Same when hot. It's a "crap shoot". Sometimes when hot, it just shuts off sitting a a stop light. Never idles at the same rpm. I have set and re-set the timing 20 times.
I am thinking about putting in a good set of Napa Points / Condensor just to see if that may be the variable.
Any ideas or opinions ????
I am thinking about putting in a good set of Napa Points / Condensor just to see if that may be the variable.
Any ideas or opinions ????
Mine has never had a stalling problem, however.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,106
Likes: 38
From: Newark DE
I'm not a fan of the electronic conversion kits for distributors. They gain you nothing at all except the expense of the kit with zero performance gain for your money spent.
Personally, I would remove the pertronix and send the distributor out to Lars to have him rebuild it back to correct specs and put it back to a points system. A points distributor that is within correct specs and tolerances with a good set of high tension points runs great.
I change out my points and condensor once a year on my '65 every Spring when I get the car ready for the "season". It cost about $12-15 and takes 15 minutes or so to swap them out and reset dwell and timing - not a big deal. Thats 12 or 13 years worth of fresh points for the cost of the pertronix kit with overall greater reliability.
If the goal is to increase performance than upgrade to something like a factory GM HEI tach drive distributor rather than use a conversion kit such as the pertronix - that will at least gain you hotter spark.
I'll agree with the previous poster that said that if your carb was rebuilt by Lars than chances are it's not a carb issue. looking for a vacuum leak would be a good idea to start with than have the distributor rebuilt so you know it's correct and working as well as the carb is.
Personally, I would remove the pertronix and send the distributor out to Lars to have him rebuild it back to correct specs and put it back to a points system. A points distributor that is within correct specs and tolerances with a good set of high tension points runs great.
I change out my points and condensor once a year on my '65 every Spring when I get the car ready for the "season". It cost about $12-15 and takes 15 minutes or so to swap them out and reset dwell and timing - not a big deal. Thats 12 or 13 years worth of fresh points for the cost of the pertronix kit with overall greater reliability.
If the goal is to increase performance than upgrade to something like a factory GM HEI tach drive distributor rather than use a conversion kit such as the pertronix - that will at least gain you hotter spark.
I'll agree with the previous poster that said that if your carb was rebuilt by Lars than chances are it's not a carb issue. looking for a vacuum leak would be a good idea to start with than have the distributor rebuilt so you know it's correct and working as well as the carb is.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,202
Likes: 10
From: cincinnati ohio
St. Jude Donor '09
[QUOTE=BarryK;1561520746]I'm not a fan of the electronic conversion kits for distributors. They gain you nothing at all except the expense of the kit with zero performance gain for your money spent.
If the goal is to increase performance than upgrade to something like a factory GM HEI tach drive distributor rather than use a conversion kit such as the pertronix - that will at least gain you hotter spark.
QUOTE]
Or a good ignition box + points.
I use a vintage aluminum Accel dual point, tach drive, ball bearing dist. running one set of points with a Crane HI-6 box.
The points act only as a switch so they will never burn and probably out last the Pertronix
.
The only missfire I ever enconter is bouncing off the rev limiter....which is another benefit of an ignition box
If the goal is to increase performance than upgrade to something like a factory GM HEI tach drive distributor rather than use a conversion kit such as the pertronix - that will at least gain you hotter spark.
QUOTE]
Or a good ignition box + points.
I use a vintage aluminum Accel dual point, tach drive, ball bearing dist. running one set of points with a Crane HI-6 box.
The points act only as a switch so they will never burn and probably out last the Pertronix
.The only missfire I ever enconter is bouncing off the rev limiter....which is another benefit of an ignition box
Drifting
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,425
Likes: 0
From: Seattle Wash.
I'm not a fan of the electronic conversion kits for distributors. They gain you nothing at all except the expense of the kit with zero performance gain for your money spent.
Personally, I would remove the pertronix and send the distributor out to Lars to have him rebuild it back to correct specs and put it back to a points system. A points distributor that is within correct specs and tolerances with a good set of high tension points runs great.
I change out my points and condensor once a year on my '65 every Spring when I get the car ready for the "season". It cost about $12-15 and takes 15 minutes or so to swap them out and reset dwell and timing - not a big deal. Thats 12 or 13 years worth of fresh points for the cost of the pertronix kit with overall greater reliability.
If the goal is to increase performance than upgrade to something like a factory GM HEI tach drive distributor rather than use a conversion kit such as the pertronix - that will at least gain you hotter spark.
I'll agree with the previous poster that said that if your carb was rebuilt by Lars than chances are it's not a carb issue. looking for a vacuum leak would be a good idea to start with than have the distributor rebuilt so you know it's correct and working as well as the carb is.
Personally, I would remove the pertronix and send the distributor out to Lars to have him rebuild it back to correct specs and put it back to a points system. A points distributor that is within correct specs and tolerances with a good set of high tension points runs great.
I change out my points and condensor once a year on my '65 every Spring when I get the car ready for the "season". It cost about $12-15 and takes 15 minutes or so to swap them out and reset dwell and timing - not a big deal. Thats 12 or 13 years worth of fresh points for the cost of the pertronix kit with overall greater reliability.
If the goal is to increase performance than upgrade to something like a factory GM HEI tach drive distributor rather than use a conversion kit such as the pertronix - that will at least gain you hotter spark.
I'll agree with the previous poster that said that if your carb was rebuilt by Lars than chances are it's not a carb issue. looking for a vacuum leak would be a good idea to start with than have the distributor rebuilt so you know it's correct and working as well as the carb is.
Not only that, if you have a failure with one of the pointless kits that are available, you're kind of sunk. You can easily carry a set of points and condensor and replace them on the fly if they should ever fail. Never understood why so many bash the conventional points type ignitions.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,727
Likes: 39
From: Fremont CA
Open your points adjustment window in the dist cap, run a ground wire from the points mounting plate to the engine block and see if there is an improvement of the performance. Many time I find a car with a bad running Igniitor to have a grounding problem. I always remov the distributor and tear it down completely whan installing a Ignitor unit. There is a grounding wire from the bottom of the points plate to the distributor housing, this wire is often broken or ready to fail. The centrifigal advance and vacuum advance units should be tested and properly lubrcated. Your tach drive gear should be checked for play and properly lubricated. Many people throw in these conversions and expect miricles when there are other existing problems. When a Ignitor unit is put into a properly rebuilt distibutor, the difference is noticiable with instant starts, and improved bottm end power along with smoother operation.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,926
Likes: 739
From: Youngstown Ohio
Just a thought....when you start the car, you ARE waiting 15-30 seconds AFTER you turn the ignition on before you actually START the car, right? My Pertronix has been rock solid going on 3 years, but if I rush it, it will start hard. Wait 15-30 seconds and it starts right up every time.
Mine has never had a stalling problem, however.
Mine has never had a stalling problem, however.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 43
From: Eastern US XX
Perhaps I have a different version that behaves differently? Right out of the book. I seem to remember "lobe sensor".... That long, huh...
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
I would just put points back in it. GM used them for 30 yrs and cars have run hundreds of thousands of miles with them. I have had the same set of points in my car since 1988 and about 45k miles and I have never even gone back and adjusted them or cleaned anything... My car runs perfect hot or cold and even has a junk Auto Zone q-junk on it.
Go to Napa, get some points....be done with it.
Go to Napa, get some points....be done with it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,878
Likes: 3,556
From: Fernandina Beach FL
2023 Restomod of the Year finalist
2020 C3 of the Year Winner - Modified
I've been running the Petronix II for several years... I've never had to adjust it- clean it- or replace it (unlike points). The car idles smoother and immediately starts every time -even after sitting a month or two.
HOWEVER- it might be due to the fact I used synthetic grease in the distributor and cleaned it w/ synthetic brake fluid!!!!
HOWEVER- it might be due to the fact I used synthetic grease in the distributor and cleaned it w/ synthetic brake fluid!!!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,217
Likes: 1
From: End of the Ike IL
Cruise-In V Veteran
Cruise-In VI Veteran
M&H Fabricators Point eliminator kit + a stock coil from them = trouble free ignition system
I know that points, when set up properly, provide great performance. The only reason I went with the breakerless system was for convenience. I hated fiddling with points.
Does my car run better? Well, I also shimmed end play and cleaned up the weights, changed the springs, lubricated everything, etc., so, yeah, my 'vette does run better. So I know that it isn't from the breakerless system alone: A clean and tight distributor is better than a dirty and loose one.
Again, my change from points to breakerless was for convenience. It's been over three years since I installed it without any problems, so I'm happy with my decision. Your opinion (like mileage) may vary.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
I've been running a Pertronix Ignitor II in a 350 HP 355 SBC for about 2 years with absolutely no isuses at all. It's a daily driver that sees > 5000 RPM once a week or so '-)
I agree with the comment regarding taking the time to set it up right - I did have to shim my distributor shaft, which as noted should have been done anyway. Completely agree that regardless of the system it needs to be set up right in all particulars.
I agree with the comment regarding taking the time to set it up right - I did have to shim my distributor shaft, which as noted should have been done anyway. Completely agree that regardless of the system it needs to be set up right in all particulars.
