How long before ...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
How long before ...
Since I'm restoring/modifying my vette for a long time now, I've some people telling me that the world will run out of petrol before I can get it on the road again...
Funny, but anyone ever think about that ?
These cars use so much gas, are so expensive to drive, that sometimes I'm thinking that it won't be long before the governments start to forbid cars like the vette.
At this moment in Europe, governments are trying their hardest to give you a bad feeling/bad reputation when driving a car and certainly when you have a car only meant for fun.
However I cannot imagine myself having another hobby.
Funny, but anyone ever think about that ?
These cars use so much gas, are so expensive to drive, that sometimes I'm thinking that it won't be long before the governments start to forbid cars like the vette.
At this moment in Europe, governments are trying their hardest to give you a bad feeling/bad reputation when driving a car and certainly when you have a car only meant for fun.
However I cannot imagine myself having another hobby.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 7
From: Katy (Houston) TX
CI 7-8 Veteran
This is in no way a topic that deserves to be in Tech/Performance but I'll add my $.02
It's still going to be a good while before we 'run out' of oil. Higher oil prices allow the industry to find ways that were previously uneconomical to extract oil left in place. That oil that is left in place is not used in reserves forecasting. This is why every 10 years the 'end date' of oil production keeps moving back another 10 years or so.
...but, as far as politics goes, there's no reason we can't continue to push for more environmentally friendly transportation options and still leave exceptions for things like our weekend toys. Sure, it might get more expensive but let's be honest, do we really expect nothing to ever change? I don't keep up too much with California politics/law, but last time I checked Arnold was continuing on the typical harsh Calif. emmissions but was making some exceptions for our 'hobby'.
I seriously doubt we'll ever see a ban on our type of cars but if we continue to let our government take away our freedoms instead of protect them, well, then who knows what can and will happen.
It's still going to be a good while before we 'run out' of oil. Higher oil prices allow the industry to find ways that were previously uneconomical to extract oil left in place. That oil that is left in place is not used in reserves forecasting. This is why every 10 years the 'end date' of oil production keeps moving back another 10 years or so.
...but, as far as politics goes, there's no reason we can't continue to push for more environmentally friendly transportation options and still leave exceptions for things like our weekend toys. Sure, it might get more expensive but let's be honest, do we really expect nothing to ever change? I don't keep up too much with California politics/law, but last time I checked Arnold was continuing on the typical harsh Calif. emmissions but was making some exceptions for our 'hobby'.
I seriously doubt we'll ever see a ban on our type of cars but if we continue to let our government take away our freedoms instead of protect them, well, then who knows what can and will happen.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 40,412
Likes: 792
From: Redondo Beach, California
When the world begins to run short of petroleum, synthetic substitutes will be available. Gasoline, jet fuel, etc can be synthesized from natural gas. The US Air Force has a B52 flying on synthetic jet fuel made from natural gas. I think the fuel costs about $10 a gallon to make. Also, remember the Germans fought the last year or two of WWII without petroleum. They also synthesized their fuel, but I believe they used coal rather than natural gas. The synthesizing process requires a lot of heat, so to synthesize fuel you're going to need a lot of electricity or perhaps coal as a source of heat.
Question: If politicians start taxing gasolene (petro, benzene) too much, is it possible to make your own automobile fuel? For instance the Formula I cars run, as I understand it, 80% toluene and 20% heptene. Toluene is easy to buy and perhaps heptene is also. Maybe it might be cost effective to buy two 55 gallon barrels of toulene and 25 gallons of heptene? (I assume you can buy heptene as an industrial solvent). Or maybe some other formula. Might be a lot cheaper than the $7.00 or $8.00 a gallon that gasolene costs in some European countries.
Question: If politicians start taxing gasolene (petro, benzene) too much, is it possible to make your own automobile fuel? For instance the Formula I cars run, as I understand it, 80% toluene and 20% heptene. Toluene is easy to buy and perhaps heptene is also. Maybe it might be cost effective to buy two 55 gallon barrels of toulene and 25 gallons of heptene? (I assume you can buy heptene as an industrial solvent). Or maybe some other formula. Might be a lot cheaper than the $7.00 or $8.00 a gallon that gasolene costs in some European countries.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Gasoline can be synthesized from coal, the ***** did it for their fighters in WWII. There's at least one liquefaction plant running in the US now, and we have a huge quantity of coal that we can't burn conventionally because of the very high sulfur levels.
Thermal Depolymerization is another cool technology - oil from garbage, essentially speeding up the process that occurs in nature.
Thermal Depolymerization is another cool technology - oil from garbage, essentially speeding up the process that occurs in nature.
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Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,959
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From: North Bend Ohio
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 12
From: SoCal
These cars use so much gas, are so expensive to drive, that sometimes I'm thinking that it won't be long before the governments start to forbid cars like the vette.
At this moment in Europe, governments are trying their hardest to give you a bad feeling/bad reputation when driving a car and certainly when you have a car only meant for fun.
However I cannot imagine myself having another hobby.
At this moment in Europe, governments are trying their hardest to give you a bad feeling/bad reputation when driving a car and certainly when you have a car only meant for fun.
However I cannot imagine myself having another hobby.
Last edited by VCuomo; Sep 26, 2007 at 10:21 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 10,643
Likes: 8
From: Foxfield CO 1970 Convertible
I had the same thoughts about gasoline when I got my Vette - over 35 years ago. I felt a little guilty, so I got a small block instead of the 1967 tri-power 427 I could have bought.
There's a ton of gasoline that could be made from coal and the US can get a ton more from Canada & Western US shale oil. That would free up more oil for Europe. Russia has huge reserves.
It's just a matter of convincing people that it's important to have cheap energy while the bugs are being worked out for their utopian dreams of solar power and wind energy...
There's a ton of gasoline that could be made from coal and the US can get a ton more from Canada & Western US shale oil. That would free up more oil for Europe. Russia has huge reserves.
It's just a matter of convincing people that it's important to have cheap energy while the bugs are being worked out for their utopian dreams of solar power and wind energy...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
No, can't say that I have. And, unless you take a very long time to complete your restoration, I don't think it will be an issue.
In much of Europe there is pretty good public mass transportation, so it's understandable that Europeans (and their governments) view private ownership of cars as somewhat of a luxury. Here in the United States, there's really very little public transportation, so car ownership is pretty much considered mandatory in most of the USA (and we have a very different attitude about government intrusion into our personal lives too), so I doubt that the US government will be trying that approach here any time soon.
In much of Europe there is pretty good public mass transportation, so it's understandable that Europeans (and their governments) view private ownership of cars as somewhat of a luxury. Here in the United States, there's really very little public transportation, so car ownership is pretty much considered mandatory in most of the USA (and we have a very different attitude about government intrusion into our personal lives too), so I doubt that the US government will be trying that approach here any time soon.
Anyway, just want to add that there is this anti-car policy and meanstream political view right now. Something like when you drive your vette people don't turn around to say, what a beautiful car, but in turn have faces that say, jeezus, that things uses all the valuable fuel
. That is the sort of feeling i'm talking about.And yes it should be in General... i thought that i did however
Race Director
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 10,643
Likes: 8
From: Foxfield CO 1970 Convertible
Well, its a fact that there is a good deal of public transportation, however it is far from sufficient.
Anyway, just want to add that there is this anti-car policy and meanstream political view right now. Something like when you drive your vette people don't turn around to say, what a beautiful car, but in turn have faces that say, jeezus, that things uses all the valuable fuel . That is the sort of feeling i'm talking about.
Anyway, just want to add that there is this anti-car policy and meanstream political view right now. Something like when you drive your vette people don't turn around to say, what a beautiful car, but in turn have faces that say, jeezus, that things uses all the valuable fuel
. That is the sort of feeling i'm talking about.Just tell them that your car runs on hemp vapor, or something similar...
I used to run on hemp vapor. Had to give it up. Made me run too slowly.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
Hi,
I think about this issue as well (I also live in Belgium. I read last week that the UK is investing a lot of money in 'Cold Fusion' techniques to generate energy. Very interesting ...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2373748.ece
BTW, that CO2 recycling article, wow ... amazing ... Hope it ever becomes reality.
Anyway, if I get angry people telling me I'm a gasoline consumer, I tell them my Vette runs on LPG (which it does). More environmentally friendly, and cheap And when I want some more power, I just switch it back to normal gasoline. Works great for me 
Cheers,
Maarten
I think about this issue as well (I also live in Belgium
. I read last week that the UK is investing a lot of money in 'Cold Fusion' techniques to generate energy. Very interesting ... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2373748.ece
BTW, that CO2 recycling article, wow ... amazing ... Hope it ever becomes reality.
Anyway, if I get angry people telling me I'm a gasoline consumer, I tell them my Vette runs on LPG (which it does). More environmentally friendly, and cheap
And when I want some more power, I just switch it back to normal gasoline. Works great for me Cheers,
Maarten
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 872
Likes: 3
From: Cortlandt Manor New York
You guys that keep worrying about this issue need to find something else to do to keep yourself entertained. The oil and gas companies will find an alternative fuel long before they run out of reserves. You can bet they will be in the alternative fuel business when they do. These are some of the largest and most profitable companies on the planet and I certainly don't expect them to close up shop in my lifetime.
There are plenty of oil and gas reserves out there it is just all about what you are willing to pay for it. Gas prices have gone from 25 cents a gallon to well over 3 dollars a gallon which is a 1200 percent increase and we are still consuming more than ever. Do you really think it costs 12 times more to refine gas than it did 35 years ago? Or 3 times what it cost 3 years ago? Do you know of anything that has increased at that rate? The oil companies are experts at buying political power, milking the consumer, abd getting rich.
Don't start stock piling gas just yet. It will be readily available for many years it will just be about cost. You know it will not be getting any cheaper.
Pardon my rant!
There are plenty of oil and gas reserves out there it is just all about what you are willing to pay for it. Gas prices have gone from 25 cents a gallon to well over 3 dollars a gallon which is a 1200 percent increase and we are still consuming more than ever. Do you really think it costs 12 times more to refine gas than it did 35 years ago? Or 3 times what it cost 3 years ago? Do you know of anything that has increased at that rate? The oil companies are experts at buying political power, milking the consumer, abd getting rich.
Don't start stock piling gas just yet. It will be readily available for many years it will just be about cost. You know it will not be getting any cheaper.
Pardon my rant!
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
You guys that keep worrying about this issue need to find something else to do to keep yourself entertained. The oil and gas companies will find an alternative fuel long before they run out of reserves. You can bet they will be in the alternative fuel business when they do. These are some of the largest and most profitable companies on the planet and I certainly don't expect them to close up shop in my lifetime.
There are plenty of oil and gas reserves out there it is just all about what you are willing to pay for it. Gas prices have gone from 25 cents a gallon to well over 3 dollars a gallon which is a 1200 percent increase and we are still consuming more than ever. Do you really think it costs 12 times more to refine gas than it did 35 years ago? Or 3 times what it cost 3 years ago? Do you know of anything that has increased at that rate? The oil companies are experts at buying political power, milking the consumer, abd getting rich.
Don't start stock piling gas just yet. It will be readily available for many years it will just be about cost. You know it will not be getting any cheaper.
Pardon my rant!
There are plenty of oil and gas reserves out there it is just all about what you are willing to pay for it. Gas prices have gone from 25 cents a gallon to well over 3 dollars a gallon which is a 1200 percent increase and we are still consuming more than ever. Do you really think it costs 12 times more to refine gas than it did 35 years ago? Or 3 times what it cost 3 years ago? Do you know of anything that has increased at that rate? The oil companies are experts at buying political power, milking the consumer, abd getting rich.
Don't start stock piling gas just yet. It will be readily available for many years it will just be about cost. You know it will not be getting any cheaper.
Pardon my rant!
Well i would like to kick their *** if i could find an alternative myself.
