)
I need your opinion......
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 276
Likes: 1
From: Pistoia PT (ITALY)
I need your opinion......
Now is the time to have more horses under my hood!
This is my actual engine:
Motown 427 Small Block 4" stroke 4.125" bore
Eagle Steel forged crank
Eagle H beam ESP 6" rods
JE Forged Pistons 5cc dome
Milodon High Flow/Pressure oil pump
Milodon kick-out 7 qts oil pan
Trick Flow 195cc CNC chambers Hand ported heads
Edelbrock Vitor Jr.
Mighty Demon 850 CFM annular discharge
Crane Cams Roller Hydraulic 236° - 242° @ 0.050"
Crane Gold Roller Rockers 1.6
Moroso Vacuum Pump
MSD Billet Distributor
MSD 6 AL
May the Heads are too small for my engine..... and the idea was to swap it with
Dart PRO 1 227 CNC
Due to the fact that these heads are flowing so well in the exhaust (80% of the intake wich is in the range of 300CFM @ 0.7" lift) my idea was to use a single pattern camshaft.... in the range of 255-260° @ 0.050".
Opinions?
Do you think I will reach the 600 Hp ???
....last thing....
I'm falling in love with the KATICORE intake..... sigh!!!:o
This is my actual engine:
Motown 427 Small Block 4" stroke 4.125" bore
Eagle Steel forged crank
Eagle H beam ESP 6" rods
JE Forged Pistons 5cc dome
Milodon High Flow/Pressure oil pump
Milodon kick-out 7 qts oil pan
Trick Flow 195cc CNC chambers Hand ported heads
Edelbrock Vitor Jr.
Mighty Demon 850 CFM annular discharge
Crane Cams Roller Hydraulic 236° - 242° @ 0.050"
Crane Gold Roller Rockers 1.6
Moroso Vacuum Pump
MSD Billet Distributor
MSD 6 AL
May the Heads are too small for my engine..... and the idea was to swap it with
Dart PRO 1 227 CNC
Due to the fact that these heads are flowing so well in the exhaust (80% of the intake wich is in the range of 300CFM @ 0.7" lift) my idea was to use a single pattern camshaft.... in the range of 255-260° @ 0.050".
Opinions?
Do you think I will reach the 600 Hp ???
....last thing....
I'm falling in love with the KATICORE intake..... sigh!!!:o
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 99
From: Orrtanna Pa.
I would try more duration and swap to a solid lifter cam BEFORE spending major cash on the heads. Just my opinion of course,but with my 195 cc AFR's and a flat tappet solid (254@.050)I can turn into the 7000 range and am more than satisfied with my 406.Guessimate 540hp,and it's a handful for sure on a hard launch.
If full on racing is the game,then maybe go the big head route,but I think for street use,the smaller the port,the better.
If full on racing is the game,then maybe go the big head route,but I think for street use,the smaller the port,the better.
Last edited by The Money Pit; Oct 3, 2007 at 01:54 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 276
Likes: 1
From: Pistoia PT (ITALY)
Katicore
In fact...... I have seen that the manifold is from Redline!
I agree with you Belgian1979..... the Kinsler Dragon Claw with 2-1/4" or 2-1/2" mouths !
Regarding the heads, there is a lot of difference between 406 and 427.... Specially if your 406 have a shorter stroke (i guess).
The 427 have basically the same numbers than the Big-Block.... and if you check the port dimension of the Big-Block heads....
My propension for the Dart heads was influenced by the following consideration:
The longer the duration of the cam, the worst the driveability in the street, the lower the vacuum for the accessoires.....
So, with big flow numbers at high valve-lift, should be smart to bolt on a Roller cam with very big lift (in the range of 0.650") and a relative short duration.
Ther is someone driving a similar engine????
I agree with you Belgian1979..... the Kinsler Dragon Claw with 2-1/4" or 2-1/2" mouths !
Regarding the heads, there is a lot of difference between 406 and 427.... Specially if your 406 have a shorter stroke (i guess).
The 427 have basically the same numbers than the Big-Block.... and if you check the port dimension of the Big-Block heads....
My propension for the Dart heads was influenced by the following consideration:
The longer the duration of the cam, the worst the driveability in the street, the lower the vacuum for the accessoires.....
So, with big flow numbers at high valve-lift, should be smart to bolt on a Roller cam with very big lift (in the range of 0.650") and a relative short duration.
Ther is someone driving a similar engine????
Racer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 393
Likes: 3
From: Dallas, TX
why dont you buy some SB2.2 heads and a big cam to help that 427 put out all the power it really wants to, just my $.02 or at least thats what I would do with a big cube small block, that or some 11 or 18 degree heads from dart or brodix. something to think about.
-alex
-alex
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 99
From: Orrtanna Pa.
I think the 406 uses the same stroke as a 427,but a smaller bore. You're right about the BB heads having huge ports,but have heard that big ports (meaning too big) can be as bad as big cam (meaning huge lift/duration) in reguards to lazy low end performance. It is a balancing act of sorts to get both cam/heads to compliment each other.
My suggestion was one based on my budget approach,in that a cam is usually a lot cheaper than a set of heads,and can offer decent gains if properly selected.You can always swap heads if you decide the cam didn't work out.
My suggestion was one based on my budget approach,in that a cam is usually a lot cheaper than a set of heads,and can offer decent gains if properly selected.You can always swap heads if you decide the cam didn't work out.
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 276
Likes: 1
From: Pistoia PT (ITALY)
Afr
In fact the head selection is between:
-AFR Eliminator 227cc CNC
-Brodix Track 1 227cc CNC
-Dart Pro 1 227cc CNC
Basically two reasons for choosing Dart:
1) The Dart heads can work with standard Rockers
2) The flow numbers are very impressives
Brodix and AFR needs special parts, due to the offset valve position (40/60)...... and for street use I belive that the only way to go is with Shaft-Rockers.
Do someone use a single pattern camshaft with Dart Heads?
It is correct to say that with so big flow numbers in the exhaust port a single pattern cam is the right way to go?
Thans again...
-AFR Eliminator 227cc CNC
-Brodix Track 1 227cc CNC
-Dart Pro 1 227cc CNC
Basically two reasons for choosing Dart:
1) The Dart heads can work with standard Rockers
2) The flow numbers are very impressives
Brodix and AFR needs special parts, due to the offset valve position (40/60)...... and for street use I belive that the only way to go is with Shaft-Rockers.
Do someone use a single pattern camshaft with Dart Heads?
It is correct to say that with so big flow numbers in the exhaust port a single pattern cam is the right way to go?
Thans again...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
In fact...... I have seen that the manifold is from Redline!
I agree with you Belgian1979..... the Kinsler Dragon Claw with 2-1/4" or 2-1/2" mouths !
Regarding the heads, there is a lot of difference between 406 and 427.... Specially if your 406 have a shorter stroke (i guess).
The 427 have basically the same numbers than the Big-Block.... and if you check the port dimension of the Big-Block heads....
My propension for the Dart heads was influenced by the following consideration:
The longer the duration of the cam, the worst the driveability in the street, the lower the vacuum for the accessoires.....
So, with big flow numbers at high valve-lift, should be smart to bolt on a Roller cam with very big lift (in the range of 0.650") and a relative short duration.
Ther is someone driving a similar engine????
I agree with you Belgian1979..... the Kinsler Dragon Claw with 2-1/4" or 2-1/2" mouths !
Regarding the heads, there is a lot of difference between 406 and 427.... Specially if your 406 have a shorter stroke (i guess).
The 427 have basically the same numbers than the Big-Block.... and if you check the port dimension of the Big-Block heads....
My propension for the Dart heads was influenced by the following consideration:
The longer the duration of the cam, the worst the driveability in the street, the lower the vacuum for the accessoires.....
So, with big flow numbers at high valve-lift, should be smart to bolt on a Roller cam with very big lift (in the range of 0.650") and a relative short duration.
Ther is someone driving a similar engine????
Basically a 50 mm could support up to about 640 hp, but all in all I've seen reviews saying it would not support an engine much over 366 ci. Anyway if you use to big throttle bores, it will be very difficult to tune since a small amount of throttle movement will cause a large amount of air movement...
As to your heads : anything with 427 ci will need some very good high cfm heads if it is supposed to run a lot of rpm's and hp. Normally the larger stroked engines are made to produce a lott of torque lower down.
This will make the cam, intake choices a little easier. Sometimes it is better to stay on the conservative side imo.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
I am waiting for whatever AFR has bigger that 210cc in their new Eliminator series for my 427ci or I will go with 18 deg if I can't find any flowing north of 310CFM, I can't seem to get any good answers on what they have, I don't want the old ones. I will step up the solid roller I have now and I am expecting well over 600HP and 600TQ or bust 
and be a good street motor 
My 406 ci was dynoed out of the car but was not tuned at all, I actually put it on the dyno because I wanted to eliminate the motor as a source of drivetrain vibration. It came in at 547HP and 510TQ, when I put it back in the car I purchased a LM-1 and could see the motor was very, very lean up top. I have since tuned it properly and and probably in the 575-600HP range as the motor sits now so yes you should see an easy 600HP with 310cfm flowing heads but you need to bump the cam up to a solid roller and spin it in the 6500-7000 RPM range
and be a good street motor My 406 ci was dynoed out of the car but was not tuned at all, I actually put it on the dyno because I wanted to eliminate the motor as a source of drivetrain vibration. It came in at 547HP and 510TQ, when I put it back in the car I purchased a LM-1 and could see the motor was very, very lean up top. I have since tuned it properly and and probably in the 575-600HP range as the motor sits now so yes you should see an easy 600HP with 310cfm flowing heads but you need to bump the cam up to a solid roller and spin it in the 6500-7000 RPM range
Last edited by MotorHead; Oct 3, 2007 at 09:54 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,139
Likes: 0
From: Salina Kansas
I just got my 427 sb motor running last week and will get it chassis, dyno-tuned a week from Saturday because the efi setup on it takes more patience to tune than I have. Anyway, below are the specs and yes, the AFR Elim 227 heads say they require shaft rockers for street use, which is why I went with the 210's. I'll post the dyno results when I get them, hoping for 440-450 rwhp, but I may be disappointed.
427 dart sb
AFR 210 Elim heads with comp promagnum 1.6 roller rockers and stud girdles
Comp cams solid roller 631/631; 250/258 dur; 111 LS
10.5:1 CR
Ported Vic Jr intake
1000 cfm TB
FAST xfi efi setup
1 7/8" hooker headers with 4" sidepipes and STS baffles
TKO 5-speed
427 dart sb
AFR 210 Elim heads with comp promagnum 1.6 roller rockers and stud girdles
Comp cams solid roller 631/631; 250/258 dur; 111 LS
10.5:1 CR
Ported Vic Jr intake
1000 cfm TB
FAST xfi efi setup
1 7/8" hooker headers with 4" sidepipes and STS baffles
TKO 5-speed
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
HOw come I only see 195 Eliminators on the AFR website, very murky waters out there, what at the flow numbers on the 210 Eliminators ?And where can I get them ?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 963
Likes: 0
From: melbourne,Australia
In fact the head selection is between:
-AFR Eliminator 227cc CNC
-Brodix Track 1 227cc CNC
-Dart Pro 1 227cc CNC
Basically two reasons for choosing Dart:
1) The Dart heads can work with standard Rockers
2) The flow numbers are very impressives
Brodix and AFR needs special parts, due to the offset valve position (40/60)...... and for street use I belive that the only way to go is with Shaft-Rockers.
Do someone use a single pattern camshaft with Dart Heads?
It is correct to say that with so big flow numbers in the exhaust port a single pattern cam is the right way to go?
Thans again...
-AFR Eliminator 227cc CNC
-Brodix Track 1 227cc CNC
-Dart Pro 1 227cc CNC
Basically two reasons for choosing Dart:
1) The Dart heads can work with standard Rockers
2) The flow numbers are very impressives
Brodix and AFR needs special parts, due to the offset valve position (40/60)...... and for street use I belive that the only way to go is with Shaft-Rockers.
Do someone use a single pattern camshaft with Dart Heads?
It is correct to say that with so big flow numbers in the exhaust port a single pattern cam is the right way to go?
Thans again...
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Hi Motorhead,
From what I can see all the AFR Eliminator flow datas are on there site. The 210's are here:
http://airflowresearch.com/210sbc_rh.php
Best regards, DK.
From what I can see all the AFR Eliminator flow datas are on there site. The 210's are here:
http://airflowresearch.com/210sbc_rh.php
Best regards, DK.
