Cam Types?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 649
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From: Shelby Twp MI
Cam Types?
Can anyone edumacate me on the pro's/con's & differences of hydraulic, roller, solid, flat tappet cams & lifters?
I have a 400 4-bolt that I plan to hand off to the engine builder, but to be honest, i'm not fully sure of what cam to go after.
I have a 400 4-bolt that I plan to hand off to the engine builder, but to be honest, i'm not fully sure of what cam to go after.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 590
Likes: 1
From: Suffolk New York
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=technicalHelp
Look for the FAQ.
The short of it is the solids will rev higher, noisier and harder to adjust and keep adjusted.
The Hydraulics are quieter, will rev high and are easy to adjust.
Rollers have less friction and don't wear as quickly.
Roller Hydraulic cam is the way to go imho!
Your real problem will be in picking duration, lift, lsa and ICL!
Good luck!
Look for the FAQ.
The short of it is the solids will rev higher, noisier and harder to adjust and keep adjusted.
The Hydraulics are quieter, will rev high and are easy to adjust.
Rollers have less friction and don't wear as quickly.
Roller Hydraulic cam is the way to go imho!
Your real problem will be in picking duration, lift, lsa and ICL!
Good luck!
Last edited by cam99; Oct 31, 2007 at 02:50 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
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From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
Just a couple of general notes: The better the heads flow, the less cam necessary to get the same charge into the cylinder. Lift is your friend. If your CR is low, stay away from long duration (kills dynamic compression ratio). If you can afford a roller, there's no reason to consider flat tappets. Hydraulic rollers are great for most applications, but if all out performance is the highest priority, bear in mind that they aren't capable of producing as much lift for a given duration as a solid roller. Hope that sheds a little light...
BTW, when solids fail to hold adjustment, something is usually wrong.
BTW, when solids fail to hold adjustment, something is usually wrong.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 3
From: belle plaine ks
Roller Hydraulic cam is the way to go imho!
With the removal of additives in oil the consensus is to go roller as they are steel billet and flat tappet is not and needs the additives they [the oil companies and the epa] are removing. It is not a sinister plot, it is in response to cleaning the air and the change is going to come like it or not.
With the removal of additives in oil the consensus is to go roller as they are steel billet and flat tappet is not and needs the additives they [the oil companies and the epa] are removing. It is not a sinister plot, it is in response to cleaning the air and the change is going to come like it or not.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Downside to roller cams is cost hydraulic roller setup will cost
roughly four times what a solid flat tappit cam/lifters will cost,
lots of solid flat tappits are turned 8000 rpm or more, hydraulic
roller is limiting on how much power can be made by low revs.
But if your just building a 6500 rpm under engine there is no
big advantage in using a solid cam. Make up your mind as to
how much HP/TQ you really want out of the engine,
an inexpensive hydraulic flat tappit may meet what you want.
now if you want the most out of it at street level revs then
you will be out around $800.00 for the hydraulic roller.
roughly four times what a solid flat tappit cam/lifters will cost,
lots of solid flat tappits are turned 8000 rpm or more, hydraulic
roller is limiting on how much power can be made by low revs.
But if your just building a 6500 rpm under engine there is no
big advantage in using a solid cam. Make up your mind as to
how much HP/TQ you really want out of the engine,
an inexpensive hydraulic flat tappit may meet what you want.
now if you want the most out of it at street level revs then
you will be out around $800.00 for the hydraulic roller.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Oct 31, 2007 at 05:03 PM.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Shelby Twp MI
I was told that a 400 SBC is a torque monster. I have a newly rebuilt 3:70 rearend with a newly rebuilt T350 w/shift kit. I'd like to see around 450-500 hp but am limited to what the rest of the car will hold up too. I thought 500 hp was max with stock set-up?
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
You have a pretty rare motor their! A 400 4 bolt main sbc. Did someone make it a 4 bolt main? What are the numbers on the block? I.m building a 406 2 bolt main 9.8 comp., mildly ported heads and I'm going with either the edelbrock 214 dur/444lift or the lunati 4x4 cam truck avenger cam 204/216 dur,427/454 lift both are flat tappet cams. You have to keep in mind these engines don't rev pass 6000RPMs unless you spend alot of money (forged everything) So thats why I'm going for the toque monster with highway gears. Good Luck
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 6
From: Lake Arrowhead - Georgia > 72 Base Coupe & 74 BB Roadster
Since the original question has been covered.....can I ask another cam question here...
What is the difference in a cam with staggered lift....say on a big block cam....intake lift 480.....exhaust lift.....495
as compared to a cam with an equal ratio.....475 / 475 ????
Also....what is the MOST duration I should use in a low comp (8.25) 454 ??
Just trying to learn something here....lots I don't know but I keep on trying....
What is the difference in a cam with staggered lift....say on a big block cam....intake lift 480.....exhaust lift.....495
as compared to a cam with an equal ratio.....475 / 475 ????
Also....what is the MOST duration I should use in a low comp (8.25) 454 ??
Just trying to learn something here....lots I don't know but I keep on trying....
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
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From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
More lift/duration on exhaust can often be a good move to compensate whenever exhaust port flow falls very far below about 75% of that of the intake, which isn't uncommon on a BBC heads. Still depends a bit on the exhaust system, tho. A very good scavenging system may not need the extra exhaust camming.
For a low CR 454, you don't have enough compression to really make top end even with a big cam, which would also kill bottom end. Off the top of my head, a high energy type cam with no more than 260'ish duration advertised (not at 0.050") with max possible lift should give you relatively strong bottom end to mid range for your combo. What you have to watch is not to let the dynamic compression ratio (based on intake valve closing point rather than full stroke) fall much below 7.5:1. If it does, you're getting into "over-cammed" and/or inadequate CR territory. IMHO, this engine could really use some more static CR.
Here's a link to a site that will help you understand this better, and it comes with a comprehensive DCR calculator. There are other factors to consider, but DCR should always be taken into account when attempting to optimize a build.
http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html
For a low CR 454, you don't have enough compression to really make top end even with a big cam, which would also kill bottom end. Off the top of my head, a high energy type cam with no more than 260'ish duration advertised (not at 0.050") with max possible lift should give you relatively strong bottom end to mid range for your combo. What you have to watch is not to let the dynamic compression ratio (based on intake valve closing point rather than full stroke) fall much below 7.5:1. If it does, you're getting into "over-cammed" and/or inadequate CR territory. IMHO, this engine could really use some more static CR.
Here's a link to a site that will help you understand this better, and it comes with a comprehensive DCR calculator. There are other factors to consider, but DCR should always be taken into account when attempting to optimize a build.
http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html
Last edited by TheSkunkWorks; Nov 2, 2007 at 11:55 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
The real question is just how much money you want to throw at it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a buddy with a 67 Camero just like mine. He has the bored out 396 big block. I have the small block. He uses a flat H hot cam and it is a bad machine 7000 rpm.
I have had 7200 rpm H-flat cams in big inch small blocks.
It can be done. It is just what you want to do. I have had solid flat cam motors. I have never had or done a h-roller motor
I have a buddy with a 67 Camero just like mine. He has the bored out 396 big block. I have the small block. He uses a flat H hot cam and it is a bad machine 7000 rpm.
I have had 7200 rpm H-flat cams in big inch small blocks.
It can be done. It is just what you want to do. I have had solid flat cam motors. I have never had or done a h-roller motor
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
More lift/duration on exhaust can often be a good move to compensate whenever exhaust port flow falls very far below about 75% of that of the intake, which isn't uncommon on a BBC heads. Still depends a bit on the exhaust system, tho. A very good scavenging system may not need the extra exhaust camming.
For a low CR 454, you don't have enough compression to really make top end even with a big cam, which would also kill bottom end. Off the top of my head, a high energy type cam with no more than 260'ish duration advertised (not at 0.050") with max possible lift should give you relatively strong bottom end to mid range for your combo. What you have to watch is not to let the dynamic compression ratio (based on intake valve closing point rather than full stroke) fall much below 7.5:1. If it does, you're getting into "over-cammed" and/or inadequate CR territory. IMHO, this engine could really use some more static CR.
Here's a link to a site that will help you understand this better, and it comes with a comprehensive DCR calculator. There are other factors to consider, but DCR should always be taken into account when attempting to optimize a build.
http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html
For a low CR 454, you don't have enough compression to really make top end even with a big cam, which would also kill bottom end. Off the top of my head, a high energy type cam with no more than 260'ish duration advertised (not at 0.050") with max possible lift should give you relatively strong bottom end to mid range for your combo. What you have to watch is not to let the dynamic compression ratio (based on intake valve closing point rather than full stroke) fall much below 7.5:1. If it does, you're getting into "over-cammed" and/or inadequate CR territory. IMHO, this engine could really use some more static CR.
Here's a link to a site that will help you understand this better, and it comes with a comprehensive DCR calculator. There are other factors to consider, but DCR should always be taken into account when attempting to optimize a build.
http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html
with the first part but IMO 260 at .050 on a 8.25 comp would just make it a dog until 4000RPMs! I would stay in the 230 at .050 range. I had a 402 and went with a 236 duration and it was a slug until 2500RPMs. You can go alittle higher if you have a stick or high stall speed converter. P.S. I thought we were talking about a sbc 400? What happened with that?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
with the first part but IMO 260 at .050 on a 8.25 comp would just make it a dog until 4000RPMs! I would stay in the 230 at .050 range. I had a 402 and went with a 236 duration and it was a slug until 2500RPMs. You can go alittle higher if you have a stick or high stall speed converter. P.S. I thought we were talking about a sbc 400? What happened with that?Yes, we were talking about something else, but as fotyfobravo pointed out in his inquiry the OP's qustions have been pretty much covered. If this sidebar is a hijack, sorry...