Loose Steering --- HELP !!!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 647
Likes: 22
From: Norwalk CT and Boynton Beach FL
Loose Steering --- HELP !!!
I have a power steering problem that is driving me NUTS. When I'm driving over 60 MPH I have to do a lot of back and forth steering to keep the car on the road. It actually becomes dangerous at higher speeds. Within the last two years I have replaced EVERYTHING (except the steering box and rag joint --- both of which look fine). Today I jacked up the car with both front wheels off the ground and with the engine off, I moved the left front wheel from side to side by hand. Seems I have about 3/4 inch of play ---. I crawled under the car and it seems that the play comes from the joint where the pitman arm connects to the PS control valve. That is, it seems I can move the wheels back and forth about 3/4 inch before the Pitman arm starts to move --- the play is in this joint. Does this sound right? This PS control valve was replaced with a NEW part along with everything else (bushings, ball joints, Ider arm, tie rods, PS pump, PS cylinder, etc,etc.). Is there some type of adjustment here to tighten things up or is there supposed to be so much play here. Seems to me, this is the problem but I'm not a steering expert and I need someone knowledgeable in this area to help me finally solve this problem.
Many THANKS
Many THANKS
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,192
Likes: 27
From: Boca Raton Florida
So your saying that the steering wheel will move back and forth an excessive amount before there is any input to the suspension?
Sounds like you found the problem, Steering box is jacked up. Do an advanced search, Gary, GTR1999 did a paper a while back on the whole process of a rebuild. He and Mike Trackdog2 also rebuild these things.
Sounds like you found the problem, Steering box is jacked up. Do an advanced search, Gary, GTR1999 did a paper a while back on the whole process of a rebuild. He and Mike Trackdog2 also rebuild these things.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,572
Likes: 51
From: Wichita Kansas
Check to make sure the steering box has grease or just grease it then check the adjustment screw on top if the steering box. You can make small adjustments then road test to make sure the wheel return to center as you come out of a turn. If this doesn't help the play I would think it is a worn steering box.
The valve that you are referencing is supposed to have movement as it is a selector valve that ports the fluid in the proper direction. If that valve was adjusted to neutral I would leave it alone.
The valve that you are referencing is supposed to have movement as it is a selector valve that ports the fluid in the proper direction. If that valve was adjusted to neutral I would leave it alone.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
MY opinion is....having seen that ME stock steering box was tight as hell, and witnessing the same/damn similar observations many years ago....I went to the rack setup of my own install, not any kit....
the problem is, that valve has something like a 1/16th inch of play side to side....now you take that off a ~8" pitman arm, then go to the gearset which has to have SOME clearances in order to not bind up under temp variations, and to to the worm gear which is 16x greater in rotation than that output shaft.....then to the stockish wheel, wich radius is typically more than the pitman arm....but lets call it even just for grins....
so that slop in the joint is magnified 16x on rotation....but it's the controll valve...so 1/16 inch multiplies by 16x or is about an INCH of steering wheel rotation to just overcome the side/side flex in that controll valve....
NOW, we go to rack or Jeep style recirc ball setups...and that in put is now controlled by a tortion bar on the steering wheel direct....
I not a MEng. but that tells me any wheel/road input has much more affect on steering wheel corrections than necessary off a more modern design....
I am not the only one on this....many guys have posted similar opinions on this in the past.....
the problem is, that valve has something like a 1/16th inch of play side to side....now you take that off a ~8" pitman arm, then go to the gearset which has to have SOME clearances in order to not bind up under temp variations, and to to the worm gear which is 16x greater in rotation than that output shaft.....then to the stockish wheel, wich radius is typically more than the pitman arm....but lets call it even just for grins....
so that slop in the joint is magnified 16x on rotation....but it's the controll valve...so 1/16 inch multiplies by 16x or is about an INCH of steering wheel rotation to just overcome the side/side flex in that controll valve....
NOW, we go to rack or Jeep style recirc ball setups...and that in put is now controlled by a tortion bar on the steering wheel direct....
I not a MEng. but that tells me any wheel/road input has much more affect on steering wheel corrections than necessary off a more modern design....
I am not the only one on this....many guys have posted similar opinions on this in the past.....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 2
From: Moro IL
I'm with FatCat, My first try would be to try tightening up the gear box. Now if you never done this before keep in mind a little goes a long way on those things. I had this same issue on my 69, everything up front was new but had a lot of slop while driving down the highway, so I was constantly having to add steering inputs. Tightened my gearbox about a 1/8 turn and now it's back to being crisp again. Try this first, if it doesn''t help then you may want to come back and weigh your options.
Pat Kunz
Pat Kunz
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,427
Likes: 1,560
From: mount holly NC
2025 c3 ('74-'82) of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2019 C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods)
Hi, the control valve ball socket should only move about 1/4 of an inch. You have too much play at 3/4 of an inch. Can you go back to where you bought the control valve and get a free replacement? Pete.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
The rag joint can LOOK fine while it's stationary but still be trashed. Get someone to turn the wheel while you're watching the movement of the steering components. I wouldn't be surprised if you find some slop in that joint.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Dunnellon FL
I agree with trying very small adjustments to make the gears mesh tighter in the steering box,loosen the lock nut while holding the center with allen,then turn allen 1/8 turn clockwise,hold allen to not move then tighten nut,But first check all around the steering box for a crack in the frame,it is very hard to see but this i have seen before and will get worse,very dangerous and real easy to fix
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Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 647
Likes: 22
From: Norwalk CT and Boynton Beach FL
I've made adjustments on the steering box --- no improvement. I'm pretty sure the steering box and rag joint are both OK. I'll fool with them over the weekend and see if I can come up with something here.
This whole steering issue is Very frustrating as I've owned this car since 1983 and it once steered straight and true.
If I don't find anything obvious, I will go for (another) full 4 wheel alignment requesting more toe in and a more positive caster (around 2 - 2.5 deg). If that doesn't solve my problem, then I will replace (again) the PS control valve as that appears to be the only other place where the problem might exist. Maybe the NEW unit I had installed was defective to begin with, but I think I'm beginining to grasp at straws.
Does anybody know an alignment shop near Norwalk, CT where they have good knowledge C3 alignment issues. I'm not sure my rear wheels have been properly aligned when it comes to toe in.
Thanks
This whole steering issue is Very frustrating as I've owned this car since 1983 and it once steered straight and true.
If I don't find anything obvious, I will go for (another) full 4 wheel alignment requesting more toe in and a more positive caster (around 2 - 2.5 deg). If that doesn't solve my problem, then I will replace (again) the PS control valve as that appears to be the only other place where the problem might exist. Maybe the NEW unit I had installed was defective to begin with, but I think I'm beginining to grasp at straws.
Does anybody know an alignment shop near Norwalk, CT where they have good knowledge C3 alignment issues. I'm not sure my rear wheels have been properly aligned when it comes to toe in.
Thanks
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 28
From: Lutz Florida
Check out Jim Shea's articles at www.corvettefaq.com. Click on the steering papers and there is a great article on steering couplers (rag joints). He explains how to check it and replace it if necessary. There is also another article on a recommended method for adjusting your steering box in the car. They are best adjusted with a 0 to 30 inch-pond torque wrench with the box completely removed from the car. I would carefully examine the steering coupler first - mine looked ok just looking at it, but it was pretty well shot when I checked and then removed it. Be careful how you adjust the steering box. You can do a lot of expensive damage to the box by just messing with the adjustment screw on top. Good luck. Hope you get it all sorted out.
