Lifting the engine with a floor jack
Thread Starter
TheCorvetteBen
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,987
Likes: 144
From: Van Alstyne, TX
Lifting the engine with a floor jack
Heres the story guys,
Since i bought another project (1978 Pontiac Firebird), i want to do some work on it quickly. The car needs a new oil pan gasket, and since the pontiac frame is different from the corvette frame, the engine needs to be lifted for the oil pan to be removed, which im sure you know.
After unhooking the exhaust and unbolting the engine mounts, how do you go about lifting the engine up without damaging the oil pan? is a small piece of 2x4 (between the pan and the jack) on the large part of the oil pan enough?
If any one has a pic for reference that would be great. I believe that the engine only needs to be lifted 3 inches. im kinda in the dark about this, and would like some clarification. I know this isnt corvette related, but i trust you guys on the forum and you would have some experience with this type of thing.
Since i bought another project (1978 Pontiac Firebird), i want to do some work on it quickly. The car needs a new oil pan gasket, and since the pontiac frame is different from the corvette frame, the engine needs to be lifted for the oil pan to be removed, which im sure you know.
After unhooking the exhaust and unbolting the engine mounts, how do you go about lifting the engine up without damaging the oil pan? is a small piece of 2x4 (between the pan and the jack) on the large part of the oil pan enough?
If any one has a pic for reference that would be great. I believe that the engine only needs to be lifted 3 inches. im kinda in the dark about this, and would like some clarification. I know this isnt corvette related, but i trust you guys on the forum and you would have some experience with this type of thing.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,416
Likes: 1
From: NC,USA
Hey...
Got a question, once the engine is lifted and supported by the floor jack... on the oil pan... hows the oil pan going to come off?
But to answer your question, a piece of 2x4 about as wide as the pan will work. I like as wide as you can get (my preference is a piece of 2x10... but it takes a bit of hunting to find scrap that size!)
Try reaching around the lip of the pan and unbolting the oil pump if thats what doesn't clear... or rotating the engine so the throws are out of the way as you slide it back. Lastly, sometimes dropping the steering rack is a decent way to go about getting at the pan...
P.S. Take a look at the distributor, if it goes up three inches will it be in the firewall? Will the fan be through the radiator or shroud?
Got a question, once the engine is lifted and supported by the floor jack... on the oil pan... hows the oil pan going to come off?
But to answer your question, a piece of 2x4 about as wide as the pan will work. I like as wide as you can get (my preference is a piece of 2x10... but it takes a bit of hunting to find scrap that size!)
Try reaching around the lip of the pan and unbolting the oil pump if thats what doesn't clear... or rotating the engine so the throws are out of the way as you slide it back. Lastly, sometimes dropping the steering rack is a decent way to go about getting at the pan...
P.S. Take a look at the distributor, if it goes up three inches will it be in the firewall? Will the fan be through the radiator or shroud?
Last edited by ZD75blue; Dec 12, 2007 at 07:24 PM.
hardworkinman
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 507
Likes: 0
From: TN
I'm sure there are many ways that you can do this, but, for what's it's worth, I would make sure there is enough room up top for the engine to come up the 3" you need. You may have to remove your air breather/dist/and or carb. I would take the transmission mounts loose and lift it up using the jack and a small 2x4, and jacking it up against the trans. itself. Make sure it is on the housing and not the pan on the trans. If you put the jack on your oil pan, then you can't remove your pan. You should be able to get enough lift that way. I have had to do this on a 65 Ford P/U, and it worked fine. Be carefull when jacking it up. Good luck! 
Advanced
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville Iowa
You can do this, I guess. Iused to do stuff like this when I was a lot younger. However, it would be safer, and probably quicker, to rent a cherry picker from somebody and do it from the top. Unless there's some sort of issue with the hood. Just my opinion.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,547
Likes: 12
From: Carbondale Pa.
What worked for me no matter what type of car was to jack the motor up from the oil pan using a board between the jack & the oil pan & when its up high enough I would put a block of wood between the motor mounts and the bracket they attach to to keep the motor in a raised position. Worked very well any time I used this metheod. Just be careful, as was pointed out, about the dist. cap and the fan blade and the shroud . Good luck, Peace,,, Moosie 
Thread Starter
TheCorvetteBen
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,987
Likes: 144
From: Van Alstyne, TX
This was what i was planning on doing:
>Removing the air cleaner and distributor cap
>Remove the radiator shroud
>Put car on jack stands and drain oil
>Disconnect the exhaust from the manifolds
>Remove converter underpan on the tranny
>Remove engine mount bolts
>Jack the engine up, checking for wiring that could interfere, and then place the blocks and remove the oil pan
>repalce gasket, seal, and then work backwards
hopefully the little 305 in the huge engine bay will have some room to raise up. thanks for the tips guys
>Removing the air cleaner and distributor cap
>Remove the radiator shroud
>Put car on jack stands and drain oil
>Disconnect the exhaust from the manifolds
>Remove converter underpan on the tranny
>Remove engine mount bolts
>Jack the engine up, checking for wiring that could interfere, and then place the blocks and remove the oil pan
>repalce gasket, seal, and then work backwards
hopefully the little 305 in the huge engine bay will have some room to raise up. thanks for the tips guys
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,356
Likes: 6,330
From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
You can't remove the oil pan on a 78 Firebird with the engine in the car: you can't raise the engine far enough for the pan to clear the crankshaft throws because the bellhousing/tranny wil hit the tunnel before the pan will clear the crank. The crossmember will not allow the pan to drop enough to clear. You can replace the pan gasket by dropping the pan down onto the crossmember, but it's a real pain in the butt - especially getting the rear pan gasket piece into position and sealed up. I've replaced several 2nd generation Firebird pan gaskets, and have always found that it's better to just pull the engine, flip it up-side down, and do the job right. You can pull the engine on that car in about 90 minutes.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,831
Likes: 36
From: Cedar,BC
Are you sure its the oil pan gasket?Chances are your oil leak is from about ten different spots more likely to leak than the oil pan.I would take Lars' advice,if you really don't want it to start leaking again five minutes after you are done!
Last edited by tfi racing; Dec 12, 2007 at 11:42 PM. Reason: Lars post
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Racer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
From: Little Italy MI
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,959
Likes: 1
From: North Bend Ohio
If you can get the engine up far enough how 'bout suspending it with a couple 2x4's across the front fenders. Just wrap some towels around the ends of the 2x4's and make up some short chains for hanging it.
BigBlockk
Later.....
BigBlockk
Later.....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,842
Likes: 99
From: Orrtanna Pa.
I had several Formula's and TransAm's from around the 77-80 era,and pulling the engine would also be my suggestion. I did one 400 rear seal in the car,and as was already posted ,it started leaking about two weeks later. The Poncho's use rope seals on the rear,stone age technology I know,but that's what they used.
Is your engine a Chevy 305,or Pontiac 301?If it's a Chevy,now would be a great time to ditch it,and put a 383 or 406 in it's place. All brackets,pulleys,etc would bolt right up,and for a heavy car the extra cubes would really help.
Is your engine a Chevy 305,or Pontiac 301?If it's a Chevy,now would be a great time to ditch it,and put a 383 or 406 in it's place. All brackets,pulleys,etc would bolt right up,and for a heavy car the extra cubes would really help.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,572
Likes: 51
From: Wichita Kansas
What worked for me no matter what type of car was to jack the motor up from the oil pan using a board between the jack & the oil pan & when its up high enough I would put a block of wood between the motor mounts and the bracket they attach to to keep the motor in a raised position. Worked very well any time I used this metheod. Just be careful, as was pointed out, about the dist. cap and the fan blade and the shroud . Good luck, Peace,,, Moosie
I have used this method in the past also and it work well. In fact it is some time stated in manuals to do it this way. Also agree with this one as I has used this method also. The hood/fender jams will supprot the weight in a steel car with inner fender wells installed. Some shop us a tool called a HALO that does this method. Both should work if you raise the engine to its max making sure nothing is being smashed.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,356
Likes: 6,330
From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
I'll repeat what I posted above - you cannot raise the engine far enough in a 2nd generation Firebird to remove the oil pan on a Pontiac engine - it won't clear the crank. The cross member prevents the pan from dropping down far enough - even with the engine raised up until the tranny hits the transmission tunnel. You can drop the pan down and have it rest on the crossmember with the engine raised, but it's a real pain to scrape off and clean the pan & block in this position. The other problem you have on the Pontiac oil pan gasket is that the Pontiacs like to "extrude" the rear pan seal, resulting in a leak at the rear. The only way to prevent the rear pan gasket from being pushed out is to glue it in place. This is a difficult operation to do when working overhead, not being able to see exactly what you're doing in that position. Pull the engine out and do it right - you'll never get it to seal up right by raising the engine and having the pan laying on the crossmember (because it won't come off with the engine in the car, no matter how high you raise it).
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 3
From: belle plaine ks
Chevelles were the same way when I worked at the dealership in the early seventies. I believe the manual said you were entitled to 9.8 hours labor to remove and replace engine on rear main seal leak. I don't remember anyone figuring a way around that one either. And 9.8 hours wasn't enough time either.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,572
Likes: 51
From: Wichita Kansas
I'll repeat what I posted above - you cannot raise the engine far enough in a 2nd generation Firebird to remove the oil pan on a Pontiac engine - it won't clear the crank. The cross member prevents the pan from dropping down far enough - even with the engine raised up until the tranny hits the transmission tunnel. You can drop the pan down and have it rest on the crossmember with the engine raised, but it's a real pain to scrape off and clean the pan & block in this position. The other problem you have on the Pontiac oil pan gasket is that the Pontiacs like to "extrude" the rear pan seal, resulting in a leak at the rear. The only way to prevent the rear pan gasket from being pushed out is to glue it in place. This is a difficult operation to do when working overhead, not being able to see exactly what you're doing in that position. Pull the engine out and do it right - you'll never get it to seal up right by raising the engine and having the pan laying on the crossmember (because it won't come off with the engine in the car, no matter how high you raise it).
Thanks for repeating
My post was speaking mostly generic and mostly chevy and I agree it does not work on everything.Good to have this type of experience available.
