engine disassembly
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 379
Likes: 7
engine disassembly
I have just taken my 327 apart. It was in my '68 when I bought it. Its an old small journal block.
Is there a way to identify the crankshaft, rod and pistons. The crankshaft reads 4577, isnt that a forged one?
Is there a way to identify the crankshaft, rod and pistons. The crankshaft reads 4577, isnt that a forged one?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,503
Likes: 1,511
From: Little Rock AR
Yes that is a forged steel crank.
There isn't much else to identify. All small block rods are forged and those pistons are just generic flat tops.
What are you going to do with it?
-Mark.
There isn't much else to identify. All small block rods are forged and those pistons are just generic flat tops.
What are you going to do with it?
-Mark.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 379
Likes: 7
Don't know, maybe trade it with a fellow club member who has a '68 327 engine in his '63 C2. Depending on the condition of his engine.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 295
Likes: 58
From: Arvada Colorado
Engine
If this is the original engine in the car then it is a large journal not a small journal. 1968 327's had the large journal. Also 1968 blocks had the screw on oil filter, 1967 ond older had the canister type. Crankshafts can be distinguished as either cast or forged by viewing the middle "seam" by the snout. A narrow looking seam is cast whereas a wider "ground off" appearance is forged.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,503
Likes: 1,511
From: Little Rock AR
The 68 327 has bigger crankshaft bearings so that is a slight difference. The stock rods for the larger bearings are a bit stronger too. The small journal steel crank you have now is good too but given the choice I think I would rather have the bigger bearings. You might get a '68 big journal steel crank if you do swap but I would bet you do not.
Honestly it probably won't make any difference unless you want to make a 327 high RPM screamer engine out of it. As a cruiser they are both much more than adequate.
-Mark.
Honestly it probably won't make any difference unless you want to make a 327 high RPM screamer engine out of it. As a cruiser they are both much more than adequate.
-Mark.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 295
Likes: 58
From: Arvada Colorado
Surprisingly enough, a lot of road racers like the smaller bearings as it has to do with rotational bearing speed. There are a lot of good small journal rods on the market. The stock "late" 327 small journal rods are ok but I would not push them over 6500 rpm and that is with ARP bolts in them.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
If that is the original engine to your Vette, why wouldn't you consider rebuilding it and putting it back in? Well-built 327's produced some pretty strong engines...nothing to sneeze at. If you want to put some large-cube SB crate or mod engine in there, why not rebuild the 327 to original specs and have it available for future buyer for your car? It would be worth a bunch more that way than what your friend might offer you.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 379
Likes: 7
If that is the original engine to your Vette, why wouldn't you consider rebuilding it and putting it back in? Well-built 327's produced some pretty strong engines...nothing to sneeze at. If you want to put some large-cube SB crate or mod engine in there, why not rebuild the 327 to original specs and have it available for future buyer for your car? It would be worth a bunch more that way than what your friend might offer you.
Which of the engines (pre '65 327 or '68 327) would be the best choice for a high RPM 327. I was thinking about putting on a edelbrock RPM top end kit on whatever block I end up with? Any thoughts on that?
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Racer
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 295
Likes: 58
From: Arvada Colorado
This is a good question. The older block and crank that you have is probably better than a "68" 327 just from the fact that you have a forged crank. Large Journal 327 forged cranks do exist but are somewhat hard to find or are very expensive ( if that is an issue ). I have a cast 327 large journal crank in my stock of stuff but would be somewhat reluctant to use it in high rpm situations. More so than the crank is to make sure that you have good rods. As I said, I would not push stock rods over 6500 rpm's for any extended period of time. The old block can be pushed to about .060" over for cylinder bore.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,360
Likes: 429
From: Seattle Area WA
It has already been rebuilt at least once. Notice the numbers stamped on the rods. Hopefully they didn't turn the crank and remove the Tuftriding. You can always have it Nitrided if desired. Whenever possible, just have these SJ forged cranks polished and not turned. Also if these are pre '66 SJ rods then you have the early, weaker design rods. I can't tell from the photos. If you want a high reving engine, install ARP main studs in the block, use some top of the line forged SJ rods like a set of Crower Sportsmans, balance the rotating assembly, and use a solid lifter cam to spin it to 7K+.
Clean off the top of the pisons good and look for a +.030 etc number.
If Crower rods aren't in your budget but you what a decent upgrade from the Asian suppliers, based upon weight I would go with the Eagle SIR SJ rods at approx the same weight as the OEM rods followed by the basic Scat SJ rods which are all over the map from batch to batch. SCAT's could be 620 grams to 640 grams, pretty inconsistent. The SCAT rods will also require more weight to be added to the crank during balancing which adds to the cost of the job.
Clean off the top of the pisons good and look for a +.030 etc number.
If Crower rods aren't in your budget but you what a decent upgrade from the Asian suppliers, based upon weight I would go with the Eagle SIR SJ rods at approx the same weight as the OEM rods followed by the basic Scat SJ rods which are all over the map from batch to batch. SCAT's could be 620 grams to 640 grams, pretty inconsistent. The SCAT rods will also require more weight to be added to the crank during balancing which adds to the cost of the job.
Last edited by Scott Marzahl; Jan 16, 2008 at 04:37 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
You need to do a little more research. You may already have the block you need. There were a lot of good quality 327 blocks in the early 60's, and you having a forged crank is a good starting point. Others on this forum or on the C2 Forum (since that is the vintage of the engine in question) may be able to get you all the info as to whether yours is a good base engine to start with. If it is a large journal crank, etc. you may be wise to use what you have. You could bore it out some [if necessary] to get some extra cubes, keep the same rods (if in good shape and no cracks), higher compression modern pistons, aluminum heads and headers...then you'd have a winner. Either way, if you have a good piece to start with, you can ask more money should you choose to sell it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,360
Likes: 429
From: Seattle Area WA
.060" is the max I would go. Have the shop check the bore taper and conditions of the honing etc. It may very well be fine to use as is.
http://blog.scottsvettetalk.com/2008...e-rebuild.aspx
http://blog.scottsvettetalk.com/2008...e-rebuild.aspx
Last edited by Scott Marzahl; Jan 17, 2008 at 04:55 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 379
Likes: 7
.060" is the max I would go. Have the shop check the bore taper and conditions of the honing etc. It may very well be fine to use as is.
http://blog.scottsvettetalk.com/2008...e-rebuild.aspx
http://blog.scottsvettetalk.com/2008...e-rebuild.aspx
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,360
Likes: 429
From: Seattle Area WA
Not knowing the availability of 327 blocks in Denmark, I guess the other alternative is to find a shop with the best equipment and investigate sleeving it, however it may not be cost effective though. I think it runs around $200/hole around here. Are 350 blocks pretty common there?
Last edited by Scott Marzahl; Jan 17, 2008 at 05:39 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 379
Likes: 7
I think sleeving would be way to expensive. Maybe if it was the original engine. Machinework is very expensive overhere. Yes 350's are not difficult to find. Maybe I will end up buying something like a zz4 crate. That would be the easiest. Thanks for all the answers
