What a I wrote was a semi-facetious description of Bubba in general. Not all of it applies in all circumstances.

1) Yours was worn out. There's justification right there to spend money

2) Would have cost more to fix than replace, there's more justification.

3) You wanted features that the OEM unit does not have.

4) Your engine was modified to a degree where the OEM part cannot keep up.

None of the above reasons are Bubba-ish. You are the exception to the rule having done your research. I would have done the same as you.

Bubba needs to fix problems that don't exist based on marketing hype that convinces them that there's available horsies under the hood that can be unleashed for only $29.95 with FREE SHIPPING if you order now. BUT WAIT- there's MORE! We'll include absolutely free of charge a FRREEE life time supply of muffler bearing polish- and all you pay is shipping and handling............

 

So what has this thread accomplished , {ie} the informstion on this ignition issue. All I see is there are several on the side of name dropping and a few racers running stock parts that perform equally as well at 1/2 the price . Also as too street engines, again the only thing keeping one on the street and one off the street is the cost of fuel and the net rewards Otherwise to me they are the same as I have sold or used nearly all of them... .

 

I really think that with higher compression engine from mods there is an advantage upgraging the parts in the HEI so you can keep wider gaps like .045 an use cooler plugs like r44ts. The stock hei is a great design but it isn't up to par with a modded engine even though it will work. I know that you have to change the advance curve and you should change your vacuum can so why not go all the way and change the $40 ignition module and the $40 coil those parts likely need changing anyway if they are 32 years old and the gm module and coil would cost that much if not more.

Why not install the engine run the stock hei unit and see if it works good enough and make your own judgement from there?

 

Oh dear.

Higher compression does not need a wider gap.
Stock HEI was designed for (and can easily fire) a .060 gap, never mind .045
Wider gap does not let you run a cooler plug.

We may have a winner here!

 

MSD is one of the best electronic companies out there and they have been in the business long before JEGS, SPEED, and SPIKE. They made their name in racing long before the HEI distributor was even in existance.

Having said that, alot of people do run them due to the current hype, looks, and mis-information. Their stuff is good, but overkill for most engines (kind of like putting a huge Holley on a stock motor type of thing ). I personally am running the GM HEI distributor that came with my ZZ4 with a MSD coil, low resistance bushing, cap, rotor and ignition module, along with a CRANE adjustable vacuum advance kit. Reasons are:

1. Coil - needed one any ways and I run over 6000 rpm
2. Low resistance bushing - the coil melted the GM high resistance one into the cap
3. Cap & Rotor - needed new ones due to age
4. Ignition module - wanted an RPM limiter without using a seperate box
5. Crane advance kit- able to tailor the advance curve to my taste

I don't have before & after times for proof, but I can assure you the engine runs hands down better than it did with the stock HEI. Mostly due to adjusting the advance curve. The other stuff is there so I know that the ignition is not limiting my engine. Ignition mods can only gain HP when they are the limiting factor (that's pretty much true with any engine component .... air filters, manifold, carb's, ignition, etc.).

 

Well said.

 

The stock unit ran great after spending more than the MSD cost in parts, time and frustration on it. I just couldn't keep points in it for a prolonged period of time without having to either change them or adjust dwell. Hard, full RPM runs would knock the dwell out of adjustment. I could set new points @ 30 dwell and run the car hard and dwell was off. The technology in the points distributor is 60 plus years old. The stock HEI is 30 plus year old technology. GM went to HEI for a reason. As you said the bean counters were in charge. developing a new distributor cost big $ and retooling. GM didn't make the change for no reason. The HEI was better. Now it is crank trigger that has replaced HEI. That change didn't come cheap or easy either and cost GM big bucks but is a better more efficient system. It is similar to roller cams. The flat tappets work fine and run good but the new technology runs better, produce more power and are more efficient, or fuel injection replacing carburators for the same reason.
My mileage, idle quality and throttle response were noticably improved with the MSD over the stock unit even after the rebuild, recurve and complete tune up. Also my spark plugs were only good for a short period of time with the points distributor. With the MSD the plugs still looked almost new after 10,000 hard miles. I know it is hard to change some peoples outlook on this, hey I am old school too, I have a tripower, 50 year old technology. I know some of the new 4 bbl setups will produce more power but..............................

 

Are all mods considerd "bubba" or just the ignition mods???

 

What???

Pertronics is to convert from point to electronics; we were already talking about HEI.

 

And those reasons are:

1) lean mixtures in the early smog engines were very difficult to light. A larger spark gap with a more powerful spark behind it was a required.

2) engines were required to remain 'in tune' for extended periods without maintenance to meet the new smog regulations. As you have found, points wear causing dwell and timing to change. Electronic systems which eliminate mechanical points achieved the goal.

Neither reason has ANYTHING to do with enhancing performance.

BTW- When I said, the 'bean counters were in charge', I was making fun of Bubba. That's one of his favourite reasons for blaming GM.

 

No, I think the mods on this board are very nice people. I used to wonder about George, but I'm over it now.

 

 

A leaner mixture and more powerful spark will enhance performance and be more efficient, providing more power, more complete combustion, lower emissions, less carbon buildup and better fuel mileage.
Remaining in tune for extended periods without maintainance and eliminating points wear causing dwell and timing changes will enhance performance be more efficient, providing more power, more complete combustion, lower emissions, less carbon buildup and better fuel mileage

Ok...............

OH NO!! I am bubba..... I knew it!

Edit: If I had a totally stock NCRS judged car I would probably go with Pertronics or leave it stock. If I was running a slightly modified car on a budget I would go Pertronics or HEI if I had room. If I am running a highly modified car with no reason to stay stock using Nitrous, Supercharger or turbo (my car) I would go MSD or other aftermarket ignition with the available plug and play components available to adjust your ignition and timing to work with the modifications. The built in rev limiter is a real nice feature too!

 

The Pertronix ignition module and coil which I was referring to are parts you put into the stock HEI distributor.

Pertronixs does sell upgrades for points units and they also sell complete distributors. MSD also sells an upgrade kit which is exactly the same as the pertronix module and coil with the addition of a rev limiter built into the module but costs almost twice the amount.

I have been talking about upgrading parts on the stock HEI distributor and nothing else.

Other people have bought points style distributors into this tread for no good reason or purchasing a whole new distributor.

The original question was should I use my stock HEI distributor with a new 383.

 

No, The OP asked "i would like to get your views on what set up/parts would be suitable for the 383." He never stated he had HEI. I did just check his profile and his is a 77 so it did originally have HEI.
I stated my opinion in my last post. He also asked about future upgrades and at a higher level of modification your needs change, also addressed in last post.

 

OK, I give up. You win. GM introduced HEI in the 1975 model year. Looking that the horsepower numbers for the L48 and L82 engines in that year certainly proves your point.

BTW- my car is not anywhere near stock, nor is it an NCRS flight car. It is reasonably heavily modified and has turned a few heads on the street with it's performance. All the components were chosen without benefit of a Jegs catalogue or watching endless hours of Speedvision.

 

Sorry Mike, from the other posts I have read of yours I figured you were an NCRS guy. Don't want to argue with anybody, just trying to present the facts and correct options to the OP. Advertised HP and torque numbers for L48 and L82 engines were identical between 1974 and 1975 . L48 was 195 HP @ 4400 RPM, Torque was 275 @ 2800 RPM. L82 was 250 HP @ 5200 RPM, Torque was 285 @ 4000. One interesting thing to note is the compression was dropped from 9.0 to 1 to 8.5 to 1 on the L82 with no loss of advertised HP. So there was a performance increase with HEI specificly on the higher performance application. Before HEI the High redline solid lifter cars used Transistorised Ignition, (GM's antiquated version of an ignition box) or HD points. Before that the high RPM, solid lifter cars used dual points and I believe there were Heavy duty points specified in certain applications that had a stronger spring and more stable at higher RPM. In the OP's application if his redline is 6000 or less and it is a mild build I would think the stock HEI would be fine. If you plan on upgrading to power adders, high compression, radical or solid cam I would go with an aftermarket setup to be able to easily upgrade if needed and have the built in rev limiter. I found the MSD box to help my idle and low RPM power (pulling away from a stop sign) with a radical cam as well as high rpm potential with little or no maintainance. JMHO

 

Well to set story straight, I am an 'NCRS guy' but like most members, my car is not a show car and is a regular driver.

Horsepower numbers for 1974:

L48 195
L82 250

for 1975:

L48 165
L82 205

The addition of HEI played no part in those numbers being what they are, BTW.

The point of this long dragged out saga is that if the stock system (points or HEI) is doing an adequate job of lighting the fire, then an aftermarket system will not gain anything. I think Lars did a comparison that demonstrated this.

 

Sorry Mike, pulled my numbers out of my 1975 Chilton's. They are probably wrong. Really don't want to argue. I really think we are saying the same thing. Lightly modified, under 6000 RPM car, stock is fine, Heavily modified with higher redline (6500 and up) an upgrade is in order, especially with power adders or solid cams. GM recognised this issue in performance applications and addressed it with dual point, HD points and TI when needed for higher RPM applications.

 

What would you recommend for a 454 LS7 off road crate engine and what type of performance would result from it?.