Jegs is wrong...there is a HUGE difference between the power levels of shorty and longtube headers. Honestly shorty headers aren't any better than most manifolds.

 

It depends if you're going to be an all out race car with heavy modification. Read the article and become enlightened
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...est/index.html

 

That is on a 5.0 Mustang...and having owned those too, I still stand by my statement. The only reason an aftermarket shorty on a 5.0 is an improvement (they come from the factory with shorty headers) is that the stock ones are severely dimpled for the bolt holes. I based my statement on dyno results, from seeing several cars go from one type header to another on a local chassis dyno.

 

He's an idiot. There's a 10-20 hp difference just between small primary long tubes and large primary long tubes. If you don't want nitrous, and you don't want forced induction, you'll need to allow the motor to breathe better which will move the power band up. And for a higher reving small block, one of the most important components of exhaust flow will be the length of the primary tubes. The higher the power band, the longer the primaries need to be.

He might have meant your 165hp choked out mill won't see much of a hp difference, but that's in stock form. And were not talking about a stock motor. Were talking about how your shorty headers will perform on a 300hp small block. Bite the bullet.

And you still haven't answered my question, how do you have dual exhaust and only one cat?

Did you see who you were arguing with?

And it only allows a higher oxygen 'saturation' if you don't tune it properly. With the right fuel pressure/ jetting you can make it as rich as you want to.

And 69 NOX ratt is right, it does the same thing as a supercharger, introduces more air. If you bolt on a supercharger without changing the jetting you'll burn a piston too!

 

What do you mean "only allows"?

Thats what nos does, burns and creates more oxygen. It is an additional fuel which increases the oxygen saturation of your air/fuel mixture. Superchargers DO NOT increases oxygen levels in the air/fuel mixture, but charge the air particles by means of MECHANICAL methods.

Nos is changing your fuel, not your engine.

And as for the cat, it was a typo.

and as for the headers, if you read carefully, they produce more hp and trq for a shorter period of time while long tubes have a much longer power band.

and my manifolds are much worse than 5.0 mustang manifolds.

 

I think it's the other way around. Long primarys move the power band down and give you more bottom end power and torque.

 

Correct

 

, where do I start......you are close when you say "when nitrous combusts it produces oxygen." Actually nitrous oxide is approx 33% oxygen; when it is exposed to high levels of heat (560+ degrees if I remember correctly) the oxygen molecules are released. As for your comments about nitrous being a short cut for those who do not want to put in the time or money, let me assure you I have done both.

GM Pro-stock block, Oliver Maxx series billet rods, ARP 3.5 space age bolts (41 bucks each) Lunatti Pro-series crank

Ever seen the intake port to a set of $6000.00 cylinder heads ? now you have !! Brodix BB-3's ported by Darin Morgan from Reher-Morrison pro-stock team, titanium valves, etc....that port flows 442 cfm at .800.

More "short cut stuff" !!

Cheap Venolia custom 13.5 to 1 lateral gas ported pistons, coated with an anti friction compound....hand profiled by Darin Morgan... 50 cents !!.



You are so far off when you say..... "This has nothing to do with how powerful your engine is, but how powerful your fuel is." and....Nos is changing your fuel, not your engine. is all I have to say....

 

Woops! Regardless (and correct me if I'm wrong here guys) we're talking about the different lengths of long tubes here. Short 'headers' are obsolete any way you spin it. And since you're only building a 300hp SB, maybe you should consider side pipes, if you'd want longer primary tubes for a lower rpm range right? And under car long tubes would be better for an engine like mine, that makes best power higher in the rpm range. Case in point, you will not make the best power on a 300 hp engine with shorty headers. You're giving up at least 10hp, more like 20.

First of all, I know how NO works. But it seems like you don't know how superchargers work.

You've got half the picture, but then you get confused. You are right, supercharges do work by means of "MECHANICAL" methods to pressurize or "CHARGE" the cylinders effectively increasing the compression. But here's where you're wrong, you said "superchargers do not increase oxygen levels in the air' fuel mixture." Well what are they pressurizing the cylinders with? Hopes and dreams? No, they are being pressurized with air, and air contains what? Oxygen. There ya go. Our air is about 21% oxygen and 78% nitrogen, and nitrogen isn't flammable.

This is why I had to up the jets 12 sizes on all four corners of my Demon when I went from NA to supercharged.

"Another way to add power is to make a normal-sized engine more efficient. You can accomplish this by forcing more air into the combustion chamber. More air means more fuel can be added, and more fuel means a bigger explosion and greater horsepower." -Howstuffworks.com

And you still didn't answer my question, do you have one cat? Was dual exhaust the typo? Or do you have two cats? Was cat the typo?

Have fun with your H, C & I swap. If you go with a cheap flat tappet cam, do the break in procedure by the books, be careful, they break easy. And if I can leave you with any cheapo advice, it would be to keep the stock q-jet and HEI. My q-jet was good until about 400hp. Have Lars set it up if you don't know how.

 

wow that guy is sooo wrong on almost everything LOL he is right that it does not increase the saturation level but they all do add more oxygen to the cylinder. it does it by packing that much more in. i love it when "informed" people call nitrous nos LOL danger the manifold. i think that there many many nhra nmca nmra racers that will disagree with you on nitrous being the cheap easy way for those that don't know how to do it. firends of mine are running nmca running 526cid motors int he 1000+ range then throwing another 400hp of spray at it they don't konw what they are doing cam selection heads carbs all null and void when you throw the NOS on there get real.

having said that heads and a cam go a long way but nitrous will take you farther faster cheaper.

 

Nox rat:
You obviously didnt read my post in the first place. I want to make 215 horses into 300. For 350 dollars i could buy a nox kit and bingo id be done. But I'm a little harder to please than that. I want permanent, legal, power.

This being said, there are obviously two realms that nox exists in. Your realm, and mine. You're in the race realm, I'm in california

If I was building a dragster i wouldn't hesitate to add nox.


As for Superchargers adding more oxygen to the air. That is a fallacy. Only a chemical reaction can increase the oxygen saturation in a combustion chamber. If you want to talk "MORE" oxygen, then hell, yea superchargers allow for more oxygen to be burned, but do not affect that magical 22% oxygen saturation we know and love.


And finally, those damn headers. Long tubes are better and I'm probably going to swap them out. But i was witness to the improvement of the shorty's to my manifold.

And it was meant to be "cats" or "converters"

 

not to hijack, but i have a set of vortec heads, brand new in the boxes for sale if interested!

 

I didn't say that they add more oxygen to the air, I said that they add more air and with more air, comes more oxygen. This was to counter what you said earlier:

This doesn't say anything about a percentage of oxygen in the air, you simply said that superchargers do not increase oxygen levels in the air to fuel mixture, and well... they do.

And by the way, I wouldn't worry about the smog laws in CA, with your exhaust you're going to have to smog the car illegally. As all 77 Vettes were originally equipped with only one catalytic converter. And going with two cats and a dual exhaust system or even moving the position of the cat will cause your car to fail the visual inspection. Not to mention that I don't know of any shorty headers that come equipped with AIR tubes and a CARB number. Now if your car was originally from out of state, you could get away with the shorty headers, but then your car would still be illegal for having dual exhaust.

But I doubt that what I wrote bothers you at all, because I sincerely doubt that you actually have dual exhaust. I'm calling you out, let's see a picture of that passenger side catalytic converter. My reasoning: First of all, I sincerely doubt that any muffler shop in CA would install a dual exhaust on a smog C3 as I'm sure that all of them know the laws, otherwise they probably would have been shut down. That is, they wouldn't do it without warning you that such an exhaust system would be for off highway use only, and since you're worried about smog and legality as you stated earlier, you wouldn't have gone through with it. So lets see that pic.

And if you do actually have dual exhaust, you'd better go back to that shop and complain that you're not going to be able to pass smog!

 

LMAO I dont think that could have been inserted in a better place.

 

thank you!

 

should have added price

 

About the only thing that would have been better is if you would have had a NOS for sale also.

 

Owner didn't say, but this 77 is likely an L48 and if under 100K miles it's probably still got its OE low-compression dished pistons ... if so, it can use more compression than 64cc vortec heads will yield ... those are good heads but L48 can easily use more compression than 64cc heads ... 58cc is a good match. If L48 it needs true duals, more compression & more cam ... that will easily make 300hp at flywheel. L48 intake is NOT a bottleneck here.
Agree on 58cc.Agree on 58cc ... but aluminum ZZ4 aka L98 heads w/ 58cc would be better ... would have correct tapped accessory bolt holes too ... I happen to have for sale a set ZZ4 heads that're near-new. Those heads, your intake and a summit K1103 cam will put any L48 @ +300fwhp.
... email only if serious ... NO PM ... email only if serious.

-edit- SORRY ... ZZ4 heads NO longer available ... they're "Livin' on Tulsa Time"

 

Well I have to agree with these guys from what I read everyday at WORK!!! LOL!!!! They've done these swaps and changes countless times!

 

I thought people actually worked on their cars themselves.

I don't go to "muffler shops", as the majority of their staff are incompetent.

I weld my own exhaust. Bought the 2.5 inch pipe from jegs for 11 bucks a 4 ft section, universal h-pipe from jegs, as well as them headers. Installed everything myself, the headers were oem, cut off the flange from old pipe, welded the 2.5 in. pipe to the old flange, dont have a mandrel so i used several angled cuts and welding to suffice for bends (as bends are expensive anywhere). Bought the Cat from autopartswarehouse for 60 and welded everything up.

And i'm so sorry, but I don't have a camera atm, otherwise I would have an avatar. You'll have to wait.