bluesilver82

You can have this car running in an hour if you have voltage at the fuel pump.

Disconnect the battery ground. Pull the sending unit. Syphon the old gas out of the tank. Take a damp sponge and wipe the fuel tank out. Replace the pump and the sock. i would replace the fuel filter to jus because.... Put the sending unit back in. dump five gallons of new gas in the tank. Hook the battery ground back. turn the key to the on position and you should hear the pump engage and prime the lines. Once the noise stops turn the car over and it should fire. Go to the gas station fill her up with premium and put a can of BG 44K injector and engine cleaner in the gas tank. run the tank almost gas down to about an eight before you fill up again and all should be good.

Now as far as gaskets and seals being dry rotted that is another issue.

82crossfirevette

"..running in an hour", that's exactly what I thought. Disconnecting the assembly and removing it from the tank was easy, the toughest part is coaxing it out of the body. I'll get it!

Once it's out I'm at the mercy of FedExpress for the delivery of the pump & sock. I'll make the order once I see the shape of the entire unit.

I siphoned about 3 gallons this morning and borrowed a SMALL hand pump for the remaining gas.

The gasket is in good shape but I'll replace it anyway.

82crossfirevette

Update:

Wooooohoooo, the fuel pump is out! Thanks, you pulled me though this one.

The entire unit is encase in "jelly" and the sock has turned into a tube of toothpaste. I'll take pics tomorrow.

Surprisingly, the tank has just a little, a coating, of jelly in the far depths of each pocket. I was able to remove it with some rags.

I'm told that I can clean the tank with Brake cleaner.
Is this true? Any suggestions?

Dirtbuster1

The inside of the tank has a rubber bladder. I don't know if I would use brake cleaner? Maybe Alcohol!

bluesilver82

just wipe it out with a damp sponge. Do it several times. The jelly will just peel of the tank liner. I wonder how much of that got into your fuel lines.....change the fuel filter too while your at it. The 84 fuel pump is identical to the 82 pump with the exception to the wiring connector. The 85 fuel pump looks the same as the 84 but it believe it creates higher fuel pressure in the lines that the TPI set up needs on the mid 80's vettes. I went for the 84 fuel pump and it it works just fine. I was nervous about putting higher pressure on old fuel lines.

MN-Brent

The 85 TPI pump is capable of creating higher flow rates than the 82-84 CFI pump. The pressure is created by the rear TBI regulator.

What happens is you have more fuel flowing capability in the lines and on peak demands, you dont have a drop in fuel pressure, caused by lack of fuel flow rate. The 82 pump is only adequate when new. Once it ages, it no longer can supply the flow rate, causing you to lose pressure and give you a lean condition in higher throttle positions.

The 85 pump compensates for this by giving you a satisfactory flow rate=good stabile pressure in all throttle position cases.

It is similar to electronics with voltage and current. Voltage is equal to pressure and Current is equal to flow rate.

Replace all your 25 year old rubber fuel lines (which you should do anyway) and you should be OK. If your throttle body regulator is on its last leg, then you might have issues with the 85 pump. It seems scary to put a higher capable pump in, but it seems that many folks have done this without any negative results.

DCS has a fuel pressure adjustment tool and procedure to help get you better performance out of the CFI by putting the pressure up to 14PSI.

Brent....

82crossfirevette

Update:

I installed the new fuel pump, gasket(pain in the *** to line up!),fuel assemble and fuel filter today, however. After putting in four gallons of gas there was nothing at the injectors. I hooked up 12volts to the ALDL and I can hear the pump running.

With 12v's hooked up to the pump via the ALDL should I see fuel coming out of the injectors?
I've got to step back and think about this. Any suggestions?

MN-Brent

Did you hook the pump up reverse?

Apparantly it is common thing to happen. Do a search on 82 fuel pump and there is talk of how to correctly hook it up. Seem the docs with it are not entirely clear on polarity.

If reverse, it will run, but you get no pressure downstream.

Also did you replace the fuel filter yet?

82crossfirevette

Another Update:

I made some progress but it seems the problem is in the rear compartment/s behind the seats.

(1) I hooked up 12 volts to the pump via the ALDL and turned the ignition. To my surprise the injectors had fuel pumping through them, for 3 seconds, then a buzzer sounded and the injectors stopped pumping fuel. This buzzer was coming from the compartment behind me, the battery compartment(?).
Edit: I located the FP Relay behind the ECM.

What could this be?
Does the fuel pump relay buzz?
Or is something else stopping my fuel pump from starting on ignition?


(2) Now here's a possible spin.
A few years ago some !@#&^$*# drilled a small hole next to my door keyhole and stole my mirror tops, I digress. ... With that though entering my mind, I checked the sock alarm. I locked both doors with the key and left the window open. When I unlocked the door from the inside and opened the door the alarm didn't sound.
Doesn't the alarm place a kill switch on the fuel pump?
Is there a way to take the alarm out of the equation so I can rule this out?

MN-Brent

When the buzzer sounded and the injectors stopped, did you still have 12V on the ALDL terminal G?

If so, sounds like you have some type of ECM disable mode occuring where the injectors stop firing. If thats the case, you might have to start reading up more on the ECM operation.


If no 12V, it could be a problem with your oil pressure switch-fuel pump relay area.

Good luck, Brent....

82crossfirevette

Yes, the buzzer sounded and injectors stopped when the 12v were still present on the ALDL term G.

I'm beginning to think it may be the alarm. I properly armed it and it didn't work.

After researching the alarm I found the "disarming" feature utilizes the radio fuse. Well, the radio is disconnected. In addition, the radio fuse is also used by the intermittent wipers and that feature's not working. Therefor the radio fuse circuit is open.

Is there a quick connection(radio wires) I could make to close the radio circuit since the radio is disconnected?

Is it possible to remove the alarm from the equation so I can eliminate it as a possible cause?

Thanks - John

Dirtbuster1

Just a thought!

The injectors usually fire when you turn the key on. Is this happening?

Is the fuel pump buzzing, then stopping when pressure is met? This would be good.

Can you still crank the car by pouring gas in the throttle bodys? If it will run by pouring the gas in , the alarm is not a problem.

Try one other thing, Wiggle the buzzer box that plugs in the fuse box. For some reason mine will not start if this is bumped!

82crossfirevette

1. The injectors aren't firing gas. However, they will when I give the fuel pump 12v's via the ALDL and turn the ignition. It only works for that initial burst.

2. The Fuel pump is not buzzing. The buzzing, sounds like a warning buzz, is coming from the compartment behind the driver seat, not the fuse box.

3. Yes, the car will start up fine if gas is poured in the injectors.

4. I'll try to move the buzzer box in the fuse panel on my next try.

I'm breaking to regroup and consider the possibilities/solution.

Is it possible I hooked up the fuel pump wrong? There were only two wires from the new (mid America) fuel assembly and pump. Why would it make noise when I give it 12 volts and not work when the ignition is turned? If I wired it backwards would I get a burst of gas at the injectors and then nothing? The fuel filter is new.

Thanks

Dirtbuster1

If it will run, I don't think it has anything to do with the alarm. Lets rule that out.

If you have a battery charger, and 2 jumper wires, try running the fuel pump off of it. You might have to see which wires go where. Hot or ground. You can then make the fuel pump work.

Just to make sure, did you install the fuel filter with the arrow towards the engine. Please check. While you are at it , dissconnect the fuel filter. Then hook a hose to the line, and see if it is pumping fuel. If it does not work back to the fuel pump. If it does start locking for an ECM problem.

Do you have a service manual. If not you will need one to trouble shoot all of the electrical possibilities.

Try this and give us a update.

82crossfirevette

That's what I was thinking since the engine turns over and gets starved. It's been years since I used the alarm so I don't remember if it simply shuts down the starter or lets it crank once and stops the fuel. Please confirm so I can finally put that theory to rest.

The fuel filter flow is correct. Tomorrow, I'll hook up a clear hose right after the fuel filter, give the pump 12 volts and see if it pumps into a red gas can. Hopefully my problem is in the tank.

Yep, I've got the '82 GM service manual (red cover) and '82 assembly manual. Today I've been studying my options.

Thanks - John

shaggyvette

John, from all that I've read in this thread it sounds like you've hooked the pump backwards. A lot of people have done this. It will pump in reverse. So, if you did it wrong it's not pumping to the tbi's. Try it and let us know how it works out.

Dave

82crossfirevette

Thanks. I'm excited to head down now but I'll enjoy my night and start fresh in the morning.

There's only two wires to hook up, go figure. After swapping the wires, would it be safe to test the pump with just a few(4) bolts on the tank?

Thanks - John

82crossfirevette

Update:

* Wiring
I pulled the fuel pump from the tank and checked the wiring. After comparing the old assembly with the new the wiring appeared to be correct. I swapped the two wires anyway to rule out any oversight. ...Nothing! It was wired correct in the first place.

* Properly wired
1. Started/cranked the ignition and got nothing.
2. Turned the ignition without cranking and heard no sound
3. I gave the pump 12v via the ALDL and it was working.
4. I kept the 12v via the ALDL and cranked the ignition.
___ a. The injectors were getting gas but only on the initial ignition/crank.
___ b. A buzzing noise started. It was the Fuel Pump relay going nuts. A touch to the compartment wall where it's fastened confirmed it was vibrating.

Out comes the voltage meter
Wiring harness
Tan wire(end) = to pump
Red wire(middle) = to fuel sensor
Black(end) = Ground

Ignition off
1. as expected.

Ignition on
1. black/Red = 9v and settled around 8v (fuel sensor)
2. black/Tan = 0 (pump)

Ignition on AND 12v via ALDL
1. black/red = 9v and settled around 8v (fuel sensor)
2. black/Tan = 12v (pump)


What do you think? Fuel pump relay switch?
Shouldn't the oil pressure switch take over for the fp relay switch?
Should I replace the oil pressure switch too?

Stupid question.
Without cranking the ignition, should I see gas at the injectors with 12volts to the pump?

bluesilver82

your in over my head at this point. however, If the oil pressure switch does not read pressure then it is suppose to kill the motor...Mine does not work i can run the car with out the oil pressure switch in the car.. See if you can bypass the fuel pump relay to get the car running. As far as the alarm goes it should kill the car when in alarm mode. At this point my FIRST GUESS is the fuel Pump relay. 2nd would be the oil pressure switch/oil sending unit. I have no Idea how much the fuel pump relay cost or even where you can get one but the oil pressure switch is about $35 bucks at any prts store and they are a pain in the azz to take out and put in if you dont have the right wrench.

82crossfirevette

Thanks bluesilver82.

Would the oil pressure switch read pressure on start up? wouldn't that be too soon to read it and shut down?

I ordered the fuel relay switch and oil pressure switch/send unit from ZIP. I'm hoping the fp relay is the culprit. I don't think it's supposed to buzz. If it works, I'll get to the oil pressure unit another week.