Hi folks, has anyone installed a serpentine system in a C-3. I am seriously considering a GM system or March system for the ZZ4. My biggest question is that it seems most everything that I've seen requires a long style water pump, but the ZZ4 / Vette installation requires a short style pump.. Any suggestions will be much appreciated. JD

 

Not sure, but I coming along for the ride.... I'm thinking of the same thing.

 

ONLY system I personally can verify as to working well is the '88-91 vette system, it's a bolt in swap...but of course you need use the import compressor, and can use the airpump eliminator kit too....

there are no changes to a damn thing, it's a plug in swap....

 

I installed an 88 vette setup, got it all on ebay. Bolted right in. Couldn't see paying what Breathles wanted for the Air Pump Eliminator kit so I made mine.
The 3rd gen camaro/firebird setups work but use the long pump.
F Body kits work too.
If you need pics I can post em up.
Don't stay married to the short pump if a deal comes along on a long pump kit, you should seriously think about electric fans and losing the stock shroud at the same time.

 

I have lots of pics of brackets and systems installed on my engines, and an engine I am building for another Vette.

The F-body serpentine stuff will fit under all stock hoods from what I can see, and the truck and V6 brackets fit under most, give or take the early small block hoods.

There were several different variations of the brackets, with different distances from the block, using the same long water pump and different depth pulleys.

Some have built in idler pulleys and some have a place for a smog pump. delete pulleys can be had for A/C compressors and smog pumps, and you can mount both CS130s and CS144s on the brackets.

Here is a set I have for sale in the parts section.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1986726

I will post pics of other setups if you like, tonight and tomorrow. I just modified the setup on Curt's Vortec engine so he has a small idler where the smog pump would go, using a delete bracket, and a delete bracket with a smaller pulley on it. I personally LOVE serpentine on a C3.

We can walk you through the whole install including the electric fan install if you need any help.

Here is an F-body setup on a 400 with an LT1 manifold. You can see there is a delete bracket and pulley for both the A/C location, and the smog pump location.



Here is the truck and V6 setup. They are a bit taller and narrower, and sit .5" closer to the block. I didn't have any accessories in this shot, but the same accessories in the above pic work in these brackets. The only difference is there is an idler pulley on the passenger bracket to compliment the smog pump pulley, A/C pulley, and tensioner. The smog pump pulley is not always needed and can be deleted from use in many cases.



Tomorrow I can post a pic of a more custom version on a Vortec 350.

 

I installed the March Ultra system on my 81. I had to cut a chunk out of the A-frame for the crank pully, tensioner, and a stripe for the belt from the crank to the power steering pully. I also had to cut about a inch off the bracket for the ac compressor. I still have not got it exactly straight. When I rev it up the belt starts walking off the compressor. It is a lot of fab work to fit it in.

 

Do a search. There's been a lot of discussion about installing the GMPP Serpentine kit into a C3. I have a ZZ4 in my 68 and have installed the GMPP Serpentine kit. It's a good deal since it includes a water pump, alternator, and PS pump, and if you want, a AC compressor.

It comes with a long style reverse rotation water pump (cast iron). I replaced mine with an Edelbrock aluminum reverse rotation. Start thinking about an electric fan. Your stock clutch fan will not work, since it's for a standard rotation water pump. Getting an electric fan allows you to get rid of the fan shroud, so there's a lot more room in the front of the engine.

The GM kit is the same serpentine components installed in 1991 and 1992 Firebirds and Camaros. So, you could use a salvage yard if you wanted, but the GMPP price is pretty attractive.

 

Would this be the GMPP system
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Thanks
Mike

 

GM Performance Parts Deluxe Serpentine Drive Kits

Yes.

 

Save $30 http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results...row=1&pkgid=49

 

And is that a direct fit or does it require cutting my frame to make it fit?

 

Thanks guys. I'm becoming more convinced that the electric fan route maybe the simplest and easiest solution. I really appreciate the feedback. Since I need to replace the alternator and a/c compressor anyway, it makes sense to consider the expense of the GMPP or March system. Just replacing stock brackets is crazy expensive, which makes the serpentine system more practical. Do the electric fans need to get tied into the wiring harness or directly into a spare fuse socket? J

 

I have the March Serpentine system for my ZZ4 in my 76.
I have the short pump and no a/c, and the high flow pulleys.

It looks good but I have a few issues with March's quality.
1. the bolts for the crank pulley came all galled so I had to re use the stock bolts.

2. The tensioner for the alt was not correct, was about 8" too long so I had to cut it and tap it out to make it work.

3. And the worst is that the bracket for the alt on the drivers side head is just ****. It is shiny but is is machined to some **** poor tolerance so that once you have the belt on the alt, is about 3-4 degrees off of straight, and it is slowly wearing the belt on one side.

The shiny factor is good, but the quality is not soo good.
I seems like they had the parts made in china, or they saw that the order was going to Canada, and they shipped me all the duds.



-->Darcy

 

No, the dual electric fans draw 30A so you will need to use a relay+fuses.
Most kits, such as flexalite, will come with all the hardware you need and instructions. You can steal accessory power from the fuse panel for manual override, but the controller is automatic and will kick in at your set temperature.

 

I got a Serp setup off of a 90 Vette on Ebay for less than $100. I added the Edlebrock polished aluminum water pump, a 150 amp polished CS144 alternator and March Pulleys. Total investment is about 1/3 of a complete March system w/ac and PS. You will need to make custom AC hoses and PS hoses, but that is not a significant investment. Several varieties of dual electric fans are available for cheap. Ford Focus and Lincoln Mark VIII? are popular recycled choices. Dual Spals are a little more expensive, but you get a waranty.

 

It's essentially a direct fit. The idler pulley, if installed according to directions, will interfere with the passenger's side upper control arm attach bracket. Simple solution: Install the idler pulley bracket upside down - i.e. the idler pulley is attached to a cast aluminum support "bar". When you attach the bar, rotate it 180 degrees and everything will fit. Another mismatch is that the PS pump that comes with the kit has a metric threaded high pressure outlet. For $7.50 you can buy a metric to english brass adapter.

The crank pulley that comes with the kit will easily clear the frame.

Optional alteration: I replaced the thought the stock steel crank pulley, the alternator pulley and PS pulleys with March alternator pulleys. I did this to underdrive my alternator and PS pump. (I bought the AC delete Serpentine kit, it's a slightly different GM part number than that shown in the summit.com page.

Also, there's an extra head mounting bolt on the cast aluminum support housing for the AC. On C3 SB's, you cylinder head does not have a bolt hole drilled for this bolt. The Serpentine kit instructions say just to ignore this discrepancy - the bolt is not needed. Also, there's an alternator support bracket that is not needed for the C3 engines.

And finally, the bolts are a collage of metric and english theads. Hand tighten all before torqueing them to make sure you don't violate a thread convention.

 

YES, on that missing bolt for the a/c comp bracket there, you should either make a angle adaptor to the front intake bolt and mount it that a way OR you need take a rod back to an exhaust bolt on the header somewhere with a standoff, and hit the top rear mount bolt on the compressor....this stabilizes the bracket more, as it will crack without that special bracket...so either one is fine.....

and don't ask how I know this....my TIG welding buddy fixed it for me....

 

Here is the F-body serpentine system on Curt's new engine. I think it looks fantastic.

 

I have a March serpentine system installed on the ZZ4 that sits in my air conditioned 1980...works like a champ.

 

Or just leave the smog idler off completely. I picked up that tip from the thirdgen.org site - it's a long unsupported run, but it doesn't seem to hurt anything.