because if it happens the car goes by by. 
final engine config...what do you think
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
From: Lantana TX
The previous numbers I gave you were with the camshaft profile moved around a little bit. This time I took your exact combo and added a dual plane intake manifold and a 750 CFM carburetor. All of these numbers are with small tube headers and mufflers.
Edelbrock 170cc E tech = 457/5500 HP and 476/4500 TQ.
AFR 180cc = 473/6000 HP and 481/4500 TQ.
AFR 190cc = 481/6000 HP and 481/4500 TQ.
Dart 200 = 474/6000 HP and 475/4500 TQ.
If you go with a single plane manifold and an 850 carburetor the AFR 180's will do 514/6000 HP and 498/4500 TQ. You can ramp the other AFR and Dart heads up to this power level with this carb and manifold. With the AFR or Dart heads the intake manifold has become the restriction.
Also, I am of the opinion that the camshaft is a little too much for this engine. This cam would work better with a bigger engine or more compression.
BigBlockk
Later.....
Edelbrock 170cc E tech = 457/5500 HP and 476/4500 TQ.
AFR 180cc = 473/6000 HP and 481/4500 TQ.
AFR 190cc = 481/6000 HP and 481/4500 TQ.
Dart 200 = 474/6000 HP and 475/4500 TQ.
If you go with a single plane manifold and an 850 carburetor the AFR 180's will do 514/6000 HP and 498/4500 TQ. You can ramp the other AFR and Dart heads up to this power level with this carb and manifold. With the AFR or Dart heads the intake manifold has become the restriction.
Also, I am of the opinion that the camshaft is a little too much for this engine. This cam would work better with a bigger engine or more compression.
BigBlockk
Later.....
Thanks so much for your assistance. You found another piece of the pie that will need a little work mainlythe carb and manifold.Thanks so much for your help.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Take those numbers from Desk top dyno with a grain of salt. They are just numbers based on other numbers. They are not even close to real world numbers. Use them for comparison but don't expect to see those numbers on a real dyno.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 700
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From: Lantana TX
I guess that will start another thread in a month when this is complete.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 1
From: Ft. Walton Beach, Fl USA
As for N2O, I have a 2 stage Edlebrock system in place that I haven't used yet. But you retard the timing when you squeeze it anyway so you should be alright.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 700
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From: Lantana TX
I had the 383 engine dynoed. It has Canfield 195's, 2.055 intake valves, .003 deck w/flat tops, RPM air gap, Demon 750 vacuum sec. It was dynoed with a full GM serpentine setup in place, water pump, alternator and PS pump. I believe the #'s were around 443hp/451tq. Probably would have gotten better #'s with a single plane, mech sec. carb and electric water pump minus the serp. setup.
As for N2O, I have a 2 stage Edlebrock system in place that I haven't used yet. But you retard the timing when you squeeze it anyway so you should be alright.
As for N2O, I have a 2 stage Edlebrock system in place that I haven't used yet. But you retard the timing when you squeeze it anyway so you should be alright.
A small change to the set up has been completed
Dart PRO1 Platinum Heads
Angle plug,
Chamber size - 72cc
Intake Port Size -200cc
Valve Sizes (in/ex) - 2.02"/1.60"
Spring 1.437D
.620” max lift
Edelbrock Victor Jr ported manifold.
Funny thing is and I know it is likely wrong, but the Comp Cams CamQuest (desktop dyno) calls out 568 peak HP and 508TQ.
How much or what % should be taken off to be more realistic?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
From: Lantana TX
Gkull.. I didn't know they have different plenum volumes . Can you help explain what the difference is so I can better understand.
Again, thanks to all, I have been getting a much better understanding of engine components and how they all play together, whewwww lot to learn but getting there
Now I at least know what you guys are talking about
Again, thanks to all, I have been getting a much better understanding of engine components and how they all play together, whewwww lot to learn but getting there
Now I at least know what you guys are talking about
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 825
Likes: 40
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Perfect thats a good start... I have the mech secondaries and elec water pump and fans.
A small change to the set up has been completed
Dart PRO1 Platinum Heads
Angle plug,
Chamber size - 72cc
Intake Port Size -200cc
Valve Sizes (in/ex) - 2.02"/1.60"
Spring 1.437D
.620” max lift
Edelbrock Victor Jr ported manifold.
Funny thing is and I know it is likely wrong, but the Comp Cams CamQuest (desktop dyno) calls out 568 peak HP and 508TQ.
How much or what % should be taken off to be more realistic?
A small change to the set up has been completed
Dart PRO1 Platinum Heads
Angle plug,
Chamber size - 72cc
Intake Port Size -200cc
Valve Sizes (in/ex) - 2.02"/1.60"
Spring 1.437D
.620” max lift
Edelbrock Victor Jr ported manifold.
Funny thing is and I know it is likely wrong, but the Comp Cams CamQuest (desktop dyno) calls out 568 peak HP and 508TQ.
How much or what % should be taken off to be more realistic?
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 825
Likes: 40
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
I like everything but your cylinder heads. The intake at only 170 is very small for a 383. You want at least 190 or better. I have a set of AFR 190 heads on mine and I am just at 480 to 500 HP/TQ. My limiting factor on my setup is the cylinder heads and the 190s flow pretty good numbers. I would like to go to the new 195 Eliminaters from AFR or even bigger. The 170 cc head is going to run out of air at about 5000 rpm if that. A set of Victor heads if you want to stay with Edelbrock should work good. The rest of the combo I like.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
From: Lantana TX
GrandSport... I want to see some high 8's from you soon
I changed the heads to-
Dart PRO1 Platinum Heads
Angle plug,
Chamber size - 72cc
Intake Port Size -200cc
Valve Sizes (in/ex) - 2.02"/1.60"
Spring 1.437D
.620” max lift
They were ordered last night...I can't wait to put this thing together
I changed the heads to-
Dart PRO1 Platinum Heads
Angle plug,
Chamber size - 72cc
Intake Port Size -200cc
Valve Sizes (in/ex) - 2.02"/1.60"
Spring 1.437D
.620” max lift
They were ordered last night...I can't wait to put this thing together
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 1
From: Ft. Walton Beach, Fl USA
Perfect thats a good start... I have the mech secondaries and elec water pump and fans.
A small change to the set up has been completed
Dart PRO1 Platinum Heads
Angle plug,
Chamber size - 72cc
Intake Port Size -200cc
Valve Sizes (in/ex) - 2.02"/1.60"
Spring 1.437D
.620” max lift
Edelbrock Victor Jr ported manifold.
Funny thing is and I know it is likely wrong, but the Comp Cams CamQuest (desktop dyno) calls out 568 peak HP and 508TQ.
How much or what % should be taken off to be more realistic?
A small change to the set up has been completed
Dart PRO1 Platinum Heads
Angle plug,
Chamber size - 72cc
Intake Port Size -200cc
Valve Sizes (in/ex) - 2.02"/1.60"
Spring 1.437D
.620” max lift
Edelbrock Victor Jr ported manifold.
Funny thing is and I know it is likely wrong, but the Comp Cams CamQuest (desktop dyno) calls out 568 peak HP and 508TQ.
How much or what % should be taken off to be more realistic?
The numbers using "@.050" timing are 481hp@5500 and 497tq@4500with a dual plane. 513hp@6000 and 511tq@4500 with a single plane.
I found my actual dyno sheets and the best pull was actually 444.7hp@5500 and 460.2tq@4500. I don't know why hp peaked at only 5500. Maybe the dual plane intake or maybe the heads couldn't fully support the cam.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 7
From: Adelaide South Australia
desktop dyno came up with numbers of 466 hp and 490 lb-ft for my build... 383 with Etec-200 heads, 10.3:1 CR, 242/240 @0.050 Hyd Roller cam with 0.594" lift and rpm airgap manifold with an 800cfm 4 bbl.
Never put it on an engine dyno, but on the chassis dyno I managed 312hp @ 5500 and 370 lb-ft @ 4000 at the wheels in full street trim, running full exhaust, stock multi drive belts to mechanical fan, alt and A/C. Had issues with the carb, so ditched the Edelbrock carb and fitted a Holley 750cfm dp and car feels stronger, but I haven't had in back on dyno yet.
Desktop dyno gives you hypothetical results which will vary from one vehicle another. Exhaust header design and pipes will no doubt have a big factor in actual power to the ground in practice. I figure my custom tri-Y's may have given up some top end power, but there's a heap of torque available through mid-range ... it's all good.
I'm sure you'll be happy with your combo once it's dialed in.
With 72cc heads, what CR are you aiming for?
Never put it on an engine dyno, but on the chassis dyno I managed 312hp @ 5500 and 370 lb-ft @ 4000 at the wheels in full street trim, running full exhaust, stock multi drive belts to mechanical fan, alt and A/C. Had issues with the carb, so ditched the Edelbrock carb and fitted a Holley 750cfm dp and car feels stronger, but I haven't had in back on dyno yet.
Desktop dyno gives you hypothetical results which will vary from one vehicle another. Exhaust header design and pipes will no doubt have a big factor in actual power to the ground in practice. I figure my custom tri-Y's may have given up some top end power, but there's a heap of torque available through mid-range ... it's all good.
I'm sure you'll be happy with your combo once it's dialed in.
With 72cc heads, what CR are you aiming for?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
From: Lantana TX
Desktop Dyno says my 383 as configured should make 486hp@6500 and 468tq@4500 with a dual plane intake. 533hp@6500 and 490tq@5000 with a single plane. This is using "seat to seat" timing.
The numbers using "@.050" timing are 481hp@5500 and 497tq@4500with a dual plane. 513hp@6000 and 511tq@4500 with a single plane.
I found my actual dyno sheets and the best pull was actually 444.7hp@5500 and 460.2tq@4500. I don't know why hp peaked at only 5500. Maybe the dual plane intake or maybe the heads couldn't fully support the cam.
The numbers using "@.050" timing are 481hp@5500 and 497tq@4500with a dual plane. 513hp@6000 and 511tq@4500 with a single plane.
I found my actual dyno sheets and the best pull was actually 444.7hp@5500 and 460.2tq@4500. I don't know why hp peaked at only 5500. Maybe the dual plane intake or maybe the heads couldn't fully support the cam.
I agree and think the RPM may be holding you back a little, also if you still have the vac secondaries that will also do it. Personally, I do not think your heads are holding back your cam selection if you had a higher lift and dur then I might agree.If I had to bet on anything I would think the carb and then manifold. Do you know anyone with a mech seconday carb that you could borrow and take to the dyno or the track to see if your ET's could be improved?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
From: Lantana TX
desktop dyno came up with numbers of 466 hp and 490 lb-ft for my build... 383 with Etec-200 heads, 10.3:1 CR, 242/240 @0.050 Hyd Roller cam with 0.594" lift and rpm airgap manifold with an 800cfm 4 bbl.
Never put it on an engine dyno, but on the chassis dyno I managed 312hp @ 5500 and 370 lb-ft @ 4000 at the wheels in full street trim, running full exhaust, stock multi drive belts to mechanical fan, alt and A/C. Had issues with the carb, so ditched the Edelbrock carb and fitted a Holley 750cfm dp and car feels stronger, but I haven't had in back on dyno yet.
Desktop dyno gives you hypothetical results which will vary from one vehicle another. Exhaust header design and pipes will no doubt have a big factor in actual power to the ground in practice. I figure my custom tri-Y's may have given up some top end power, but there's a heap of torque available through mid-range ... it's all good.
I'm sure you'll be happy with your combo once it's dialed in.
With 72cc heads, what CR are you aiming for?
Never put it on an engine dyno, but on the chassis dyno I managed 312hp @ 5500 and 370 lb-ft @ 4000 at the wheels in full street trim, running full exhaust, stock multi drive belts to mechanical fan, alt and A/C. Had issues with the carb, so ditched the Edelbrock carb and fitted a Holley 750cfm dp and car feels stronger, but I haven't had in back on dyno yet.
Desktop dyno gives you hypothetical results which will vary from one vehicle another. Exhaust header design and pipes will no doubt have a big factor in actual power to the ground in practice. I figure my custom tri-Y's may have given up some top end power, but there's a heap of torque available through mid-range ... it's all good.
I'm sure you'll be happy with your combo once it's dialed in.
With 72cc heads, what CR are you aiming for?
I bet you would have beter nubers with the Holley DP. I had both set up on my fist engine and after all the tunning was done the Holley absolutly made more power on the dyno. If I remember correctly the max I got out of my orig 350 was 227 RWHP and with the Holley 243 RWHP. That was a somewhat stock set up (carb, small cam, headers, manifold,).
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 1
From: Ft. Walton Beach, Fl USA
I have a Demon 750 annular mech sec on it now. It feels stronger but I won't know 'til I get back to the track. The RPM AirGap is still in place.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
GrandSport... I want to see some high 8's from you soon
I changed the heads to-
Dart PRO1 Platinum Heads
Angle plug,
Chamber size - 72cc
Intake Port Size -200cc
Valve Sizes (in/ex) - 2.02"/1.60"
Spring 1.437D
.620” max lift
They were ordered last night...I can't wait to put this thing together
I changed the heads to-
Dart PRO1 Platinum Heads
Angle plug,
Chamber size - 72cc
Intake Port Size -200cc
Valve Sizes (in/ex) - 2.02"/1.60"
Spring 1.437D
.620” max lift
They were ordered last night...I can't wait to put this thing together
I do have Dart Pro 1 heads with 230 cc intake runners on my 434 race engine
However, they have been ported as much as possible!!
I don't think that I'll hit 8's before winter.. The weather is too hot already (here in Florida) to run good ET's during the hot months (May - October).
Last edited by GrandSportC3; May 21, 2008 at 10:01 AM.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
From: Lantana TX
Those are very good heads, even though I would've gone with 215 cc intake runners.
I do have Dart Pro 1 heads with 230 cc intake runners on my 434 race engine
However, they have been ported as much as possible!!
I don't think that I'll hit 8's before winter.. The weather is too hot already (here in Florida) to run good ET's during the hot months (May - October).
I do have Dart Pro 1 heads with 230 cc intake runners on my 434 race engine
However, they have been ported as much as possible!!
I don't think that I'll hit 8's before winter.. The weather is too hot already (here in Florida) to run good ET's during the hot months (May - October).
I too am looking to have the Dart's ported and hoping that will help them breath even better.
I will be expecting 8's in the fall
