Bellhousing alignment. Initial setup right?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,362
Likes: 1
From: San Antonio TX
Well it looks as though the engine is out of the car. If the base of your gauge is secure then simply remove the spark plugs so it is easier to turn. Sorry I had to mention this as some forget this small thing lol. And put a half inch breaker bar on the front bolt and turn it a 1/4 at a time and look at the gauge. 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,117
Likes: 104
From: charlotte north carolina
the dial gauge is attached to the crank? as the crank is turned, the position of the hole for the trans shaft is measured. can it be assumed that the mounting bolts for the trans are in proper position in relation to the hole? if the hole is machined at a different time than the bolt holes, or if there were errors in the machining setup, how does checking the shaft hole help? just being a devil's advocate here, i don't know of any other way to check it. but i will say that i just picked up my bb rebuild, and i asked about this exact thing. he told me that there isn't any way i could measure it, and if i did try, i'd probably just f*** it up! harsh words from a guy with 50 years experience!
jeff
jeff
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 172
From: Lake Wylie, South Carolina
Ok guys here are my numbers. I will only have 3 different #'s because I started at 0 in the 12 o'clock position correct?
So
12=0
3=.017
6=.048
9=.030
So
Vertical 12 and 6
0+.048/2=.024
Horizontal 3 and 9
.017+.030\2 = .0235
Keislers instructions say .018-.026 use .021 offset pins.
See any problems with my numbers???
Did it make a difference that 9 and 6 readings the dial was spining clockwise and the 3 o'clock reading to .017 swung back counter clockwise.
So
12=0
3=.017
6=.048
9=.030
So
Vertical 12 and 6
0+.048/2=.024
Horizontal 3 and 9
.017+.030\2 = .0235
Keislers instructions say .018-.026 use .021 offset pins.
See any problems with my numbers???
Did it make a difference that 9 and 6 readings the dial was spining clockwise and the 3 o'clock reading to .017 swung back counter clockwise.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,654
Likes: 190
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Reposition the dial indicator and try it few dozen more times, .048" runout is out of the ballpark 
It's not impossible but I am betting on measurement error here, make sure there are no burrs on the hole or bumps or old paint etc. You can also set the dial indicator out of the hole a little and point the indicator needle back in on a slight angle
It's not impossible but I am betting on measurement error here, make sure there are no burrs on the hole or bumps or old paint etc. You can also set the dial indicator out of the hole a little and point the indicator needle back in on a slight angle
Last edited by MotorHead; May 15, 2008 at 08:41 PM.
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Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 172
From: Lake Wylie, South Carolina
MotorHead,
I took these readings 3 times and they came up identical on each. Not arguing the point as I thought it was high as well. Just wondering what repositioning the dial will acheive. I think Gene or Richard from Keisler had said that the LakeWood BH's were notorious for being way out.
Wade
I took these readings 3 times and they came up identical on each. Not arguing the point as I thought it was high as well. Just wondering what repositioning the dial will acheive. I think Gene or Richard from Keisler had said that the LakeWood BH's were notorious for being way out.
Wade
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 3
From: Halifax, NS, Canada
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,654
Likes: 190
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
MotorHead,
I took these readings 3 times and they came up identical on each. Not arguing the point as I thought it was high as well. Just wondering what repositioning the dial will acheive. I think Gene or Richard from Keisler had said that the LakeWood BH's were notorious for being way out.
Wade
I took these readings 3 times and they came up identical on each. Not arguing the point as I thought it was high as well. Just wondering what repositioning the dial will acheive. I think Gene or Richard from Keisler had said that the LakeWood BH's were notorious for being way out.
Wade
I went with a McCleod scattershield on my new motor
Team Owner
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MotorHead,
I took these readings 3 times and they came up identical on each. Not arguing the point as I thought it was high as well. Just wondering what repositioning the dial will acheive. I think Gene or Richard from Keisler had said that the LakeWood BH's were notorious for being way out.
Wade
I took these readings 3 times and they came up identical on each. Not arguing the point as I thought it was high as well. Just wondering what repositioning the dial will acheive. I think Gene or Richard from Keisler had said that the LakeWood BH's were notorious for being way out.
Wade
Last edited by ddecart; May 15, 2008 at 09:53 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 7
From: Adelaide South Australia
Those numbers sure are out a lot.... I used the bell housing supplied by CC5S and it was within the spec of +/- 0.005
Question.... was 12 oclock position your minimum reading (zero) or did you get a negative reading somewhere between 9 and 3 oclock
positions?
Also, it is better to measure in one continuous direction... If there is any hysteresis with the needle display, or sideways travel of the slide, you could get slight errors of measurement.
Just looking at that photo.... Is the centre cutout a true circle with a nice clean surface finish. It looks like the outer edge has been deburred by hand using a file. Make sure the dial gauge is positioned perpendicular (90*) and running along the middle of the run out surface you are measuring. Apply some oil as a lubricant on the surface too, to ensure the dial gauge tip moves freely across the surface without grabbing.
Question.... was 12 oclock position your minimum reading (zero) or did you get a negative reading somewhere between 9 and 3 oclock
positions?
Also, it is better to measure in one continuous direction... If there is any hysteresis with the needle display, or sideways travel of the slide, you could get slight errors of measurement.
Just looking at that photo.... Is the centre cutout a true circle with a nice clean surface finish. It looks like the outer edge has been deburred by hand using a file. Make sure the dial gauge is positioned perpendicular (90*) and running along the middle of the run out surface you are measuring. Apply some oil as a lubricant on the surface too, to ensure the dial gauge tip moves freely across the surface without grabbing.
Last edited by OzzyTom; May 15, 2008 at 10:07 PM.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 172
From: Lake Wylie, South Carolina
Tomorrow I am going to tinker with it a little more and see what I get.
Thanks
Wade
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 7
From: Adelaide South Australia
Are you using a magnetic base to hold the dial gauge? or bolted solidly?
Is there any chance the base might be moving whilst being rotated.
You are measuring very small increments, so any deflection in the base will cause errors in measurement.
Also, use just enough preload to maintain contact with the surface all the way around. No need for excessive pre load.
If the measurements come out the same when you do it again, then go ahead with the installation of the dowels and re-measure.
cheers
Is there any chance the base might be moving whilst being rotated.
You are measuring very small increments, so any deflection in the base will cause errors in measurement.
Also, use just enough preload to maintain contact with the surface all the way around. No need for excessive pre load.
If the measurements come out the same when you do it again, then go ahead with the installation of the dowels and re-measure.
cheers
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,062
Likes: 1,360
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Here is a picture when I did mine two years ago. I used a magnetic base mount.
Be sure the bell housing is clean on all surfaces and there are no burrs. (Bell housing to engine contact and also the measuring surface).
I used 6 o'clock as "0" and rotated in the same direction each time.
6 o'clock = " .000"
3 o'clock = " +.001"
12 o'clock = " -.001"
9 o'clock = " -.0035"
Good luck with your "dial in" of the bell housing, once this is completed,
the rest of the install will go well.
Be sure the bell housing is clean on all surfaces and there are no burrs. (Bell housing to engine contact and also the measuring surface).
I used 6 o'clock as "0" and rotated in the same direction each time.
6 o'clock = " .000"
3 o'clock = " +.001"
12 o'clock = " -.001"
9 o'clock = " -.0035"
Good luck with your "dial in" of the bell housing, once this is completed,
the rest of the install will go well.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 688
Likes: 1
From: Stevens Point WI
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,826
Likes: 3
From: Tennessee
Ok guys here are my numbers. I will only have 3 different #'s because I started at 0 in the 12 o'clock position correct?
So
12=0
3=.017
6=.048
9=.030
So
Vertical 12 and 6
0+.048/2=.024
Horizontal 3 and 9
.017+.030\2 = .0235
Keislers instructions say .018-.026 use .021 offset pins.
See any problems with my numbers???
Did it make a difference that 9 and 6 readings the dial was spining clockwise and the 3 o'clock reading to .017 swung back counter clockwise.
So
12=0
3=.017
6=.048
9=.030
So
Vertical 12 and 6
0+.048/2=.024
Horizontal 3 and 9
.017+.030\2 = .0235
Keislers instructions say .018-.026 use .021 offset pins.
See any problems with my numbers???
Did it make a difference that 9 and 6 readings the dial was spining clockwise and the 3 o'clock reading to .017 swung back counter clockwise.
Wade:
Were those readings all in the clockwise(positive) directions? Those are "typical" for a Lakewood. If so, then yoes you need .021" pins. If the readings are all positive(clockwise from zero) then you need to turn the offset towards the 7:00-8:00 position to bring it back in. Right now, the center of the register hole is up and to the right of true center which means you need to bring it down and to the left. Let me know.
Richard
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 172
From: Lake Wylie, South Carolina
Thanks guys I am going to redo it all again today. For the check yesterday, I stripped the bellhousing down to bare metal and ran some sand papper over all the mating surfaces to remove the primer. I also ran a foam sanding block around the inside circle where the pointer rides. I did not however use any oil but will this time around. The guage was preloaded. when I turned the crank the guage moved clockwise. I hit the 9o'clock position first then 6 and then as I passed 6 the guage swung the other direction so the 3O'clock position turned out to be -.017 where the other 2 numbers were +.
Wade
Wade