NCRS when rebuilding chassis or not?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Salt Lake City Utah
NCRS when rebuilding chassis or not?
Now that the body is off the frame and I'm tearing down the chassis, I have a few questions regarding how to rebuild, such as: are there some things that are just as easy to re-do to ncrs specs? What should be updated despite ncrs, for safety purposes? Although I've already got upgraded (non ncrs) suspension components, I would still like to stay as close as feasible to stock. ('69 # matching BB vert, 4-speed)
I'll be blasting and epoxy painting the frame to a close-to-stock, low sheen finish, but I could use some opinions here-
Brake & fuel lines - I like the look/function of SS lines, but I'm guessing they're not stock. Is it a big deal to use SS? Also, is it possible to tell how old my brakelines are and if I should reuse some of them? The PO said some were replaced less than 200 miles ago.
Brake/fuel line clips? I've seen silver ones on re-done chassis's (Kortensi comes to mind). Are these aftermarket SS/aluminum or should I soak and paint my old ones with something? If paint, with what?
When reusing old bolts, should I paint them, clear coat them, etc.? It would be nice to seal them against re-rusting.
On Kortensi's '71, it shows two SS lines going along both the driver and passenger sides of the frame. Mine only has one brake line on the driver side, and one fuel line on the passenger side. Am I missing something?
My gas tank has no rear protective plate, plus there is a hose coming from the top p-side of the tank that is cut and corked. Would the back plate have existed in '69? What was the hose for and should I reconnect it to something?
What about adding gussets to the frame? Is this a real need? Is it a problem with ncrs judging specs?
Main brake line driver's side
Front brake line
Gas tank
Thanks!
I'll be blasting and epoxy painting the frame to a close-to-stock, low sheen finish, but I could use some opinions here-
Brake & fuel lines - I like the look/function of SS lines, but I'm guessing they're not stock. Is it a big deal to use SS? Also, is it possible to tell how old my brakelines are and if I should reuse some of them? The PO said some were replaced less than 200 miles ago.
Brake/fuel line clips? I've seen silver ones on re-done chassis's (Kortensi comes to mind). Are these aftermarket SS/aluminum or should I soak and paint my old ones with something? If paint, with what?
When reusing old bolts, should I paint them, clear coat them, etc.? It would be nice to seal them against re-rusting.
On Kortensi's '71, it shows two SS lines going along both the driver and passenger sides of the frame. Mine only has one brake line on the driver side, and one fuel line on the passenger side. Am I missing something?
My gas tank has no rear protective plate, plus there is a hose coming from the top p-side of the tank that is cut and corked. Would the back plate have existed in '69? What was the hose for and should I reconnect it to something?
What about adding gussets to the frame? Is this a real need? Is it a problem with ncrs judging specs?
Main brake line driver's side
Front brake line
Gas tank
Thanks!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,032
Likes: 2
From: Newburgh NY
Opinions will vary but I'lll give you mine:
If you plan on having the car judged or even wanting to keep it "as close to stock as possible" then I would pick up an NCRS Judging Manual car if you don't already have it. I would also get ahold of the judging worksheet for your year so you know exactly what it being judged.
At the NCRS that I have been out and when my 63 was judged they did not put the car on a lift and get under it. If they cannot see it from laying on the side of the car, it wasn't judged.
As far as brake and fuel lines they can be seen and you will lose a couple of points for the SS lines. I am not really a fan of SS lines as I have had leaks with them a few times. In one case it took the paint off the chassis and made a mess of things. The original steel lines last about 40 years so I figure steel lines again will still be there when I am dead and gone. But, SS will obviously look nice longer.
Buy a new clip set. They come complete with the "correct" fasteners (the kits from Paragon are close enough to get you past juding in most cases).
The juding guide for the most part tells you the head markings and finishes on most bolts. Some are cadmium/zinc and some are black phosphate. I sandblast a lot of hardware or clean it off on a grinder with a wire wheel on it (or I replace it if it's really bad). I then give the zinc ones a light shot with some aluminum paint and the black ones with a shot of of the Black Phosphate paint that is available from Quanta, Paragon and others. Might loose a point or two at the most but I'd rather lose a point or two then see rusted hardware.
Some cars also had a vapor return line on the passenger side that went to the front charcoal canister. That may be what you are referring to. I would check on the AIM (Assembly Instruction Manual) and Judging guide for your car. I am not sure if SS lines are available for that but probably, or you could make your own. But back to the first point on SS.
The vapor lines and cannistor looks like it may have been removed and plugged on your car if it is cut-off at the tank. Again, refer to the AIM.
Gussetts to the frame? Do you have damage to the frame or need repairs? Do you plan to track or hammer the daylights out of it? For a stock car the frame was designed to handle it (well, almost anyway). I would have the frame sandblasted or acid dipped and checked for any cracks and the condition of the welds. If needed, then fix if necessary. Unless you have very visible repairs or reinforcement plates welded on, it won't be an issue from judging. If you still want to weld gussetts on at various points, you would probably lose a few points.
By what little I can see in the couple of pictures, your frame looks pretty darn good!
If you plan on having the car judged or even wanting to keep it "as close to stock as possible" then I would pick up an NCRS Judging Manual car if you don't already have it. I would also get ahold of the judging worksheet for your year so you know exactly what it being judged.
At the NCRS that I have been out and when my 63 was judged they did not put the car on a lift and get under it. If they cannot see it from laying on the side of the car, it wasn't judged.
As far as brake and fuel lines they can be seen and you will lose a couple of points for the SS lines. I am not really a fan of SS lines as I have had leaks with them a few times. In one case it took the paint off the chassis and made a mess of things. The original steel lines last about 40 years so I figure steel lines again will still be there when I am dead and gone. But, SS will obviously look nice longer.
Buy a new clip set. They come complete with the "correct" fasteners (the kits from Paragon are close enough to get you past juding in most cases).
The juding guide for the most part tells you the head markings and finishes on most bolts. Some are cadmium/zinc and some are black phosphate. I sandblast a lot of hardware or clean it off on a grinder with a wire wheel on it (or I replace it if it's really bad). I then give the zinc ones a light shot with some aluminum paint and the black ones with a shot of of the Black Phosphate paint that is available from Quanta, Paragon and others. Might loose a point or two at the most but I'd rather lose a point or two then see rusted hardware.
Some cars also had a vapor return line on the passenger side that went to the front charcoal canister. That may be what you are referring to. I would check on the AIM (Assembly Instruction Manual) and Judging guide for your car. I am not sure if SS lines are available for that but probably, or you could make your own. But back to the first point on SS.
The vapor lines and cannistor looks like it may have been removed and plugged on your car if it is cut-off at the tank. Again, refer to the AIM.
Gussetts to the frame? Do you have damage to the frame or need repairs? Do you plan to track or hammer the daylights out of it? For a stock car the frame was designed to handle it (well, almost anyway). I would have the frame sandblasted or acid dipped and checked for any cracks and the condition of the welds. If needed, then fix if necessary. Unless you have very visible repairs or reinforcement plates welded on, it won't be an issue from judging. If you still want to weld gussetts on at various points, you would probably lose a few points.
By what little I can see in the couple of pictures, your frame looks pretty darn good!
Last edited by 78Vette-SA; May 26, 2008 at 08:23 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,301
Likes: 4,389
From: Westminster Maryland
The plastic shield at the rear of the tank appeared in December of 1970.
There are a multitude of reasons to do a NCRS type rebuild on your car. The first being that type of restoration increases the value of the car. But, once you start it's a VERY deep $$$ pit to fall in.
There are a multitude of reasons to NOT do a NCRS type rebuild on you car. The first being that type of restoration can become VERY expensive and people end up with cars that have more $$$$ in them than they're worth.
You need to decide what you want this car to be for you.
Regards,
Alan
PS: Here's a picture of the shield I mentioned.You can just see the corner of it.
There are a multitude of reasons to do a NCRS type rebuild on your car. The first being that type of restoration increases the value of the car. But, once you start it's a VERY deep $$$ pit to fall in.
There are a multitude of reasons to NOT do a NCRS type rebuild on you car. The first being that type of restoration can become VERY expensive and people end up with cars that have more $$$$ in them than they're worth.
You need to decide what you want this car to be for you.
Regards,
Alan
PS: Here's a picture of the shield I mentioned.You can just see the corner of it.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 549
Likes: 5
From: punta gorda florida
The plastic shield at the rear of the tank appeared in December of 1970.
There are a multitude of reasons to do a NCRS type rebuild on your car. The first being that type of restoration increases the value of the car. But, once you start it's a VERY deep $$$ pit to fall in.
There are a multitude of reasons to NOT do a NCRS type rebuild on you car. The first being that type of restoration can become VERY expensive and people end up with cars that have more $$$$ in them than they're worth.
You need to decide what you want this car to be for you.
Regards,
Alan
PS: Here's a picture of the shield I mentioned.You can just see the corner of it.
There are a multitude of reasons to do a NCRS type rebuild on your car. The first being that type of restoration increases the value of the car. But, once you start it's a VERY deep $$$ pit to fall in.
There are a multitude of reasons to NOT do a NCRS type rebuild on you car. The first being that type of restoration can become VERY expensive and people end up with cars that have more $$$$ in them than they're worth.
You need to decide what you want this car to be for you.
Regards,
Alan
PS: Here's a picture of the shield I mentioned.You can just see the corner of it.
