Gordonm

OK Pros and Cons of each. I know the maint. issue. I don't care about the adjusting I have been running solid flat tappets for years. If you are not going to spin the motor past 6500 is a hyd roller OK. Will solids give more power. Cost? Any other issues. Discuss.

TimAT

IMHO, the solids will show a power increase, mainly due to the valves opening/closing quicker. The downside is that that faster action WILL be harder on the rest of the valve train- the heavier springs will beat things up. And with the increase in lift, the rockers will have more load, and it goes right down the line to the pushrods.

And I've been doing the solid lifter thing for years too- Ol' Red has 7/16 pushrods, the HD GM rockers and the factory ZL-1 cam and springs.

Guru_4_hire

I was reading an article comparing hyd. Hyd. Roller, and solid roller. The Hyd Roller came in 200-300 rpm lower and 9hp down but had more mid range. I will try and find it.

Found it
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...fts/index.html

Pretty freakin close between the 2 rollers if you are going to keep the RPMs reasonable, or go through the effort to keep drive train weight to a minimum (beehive springs, titanium retainers, lightweight pushrods, AFR hydra-rev kit).

LFZ

I personally would never put a hydraulic roller past 6000rpms...valve float is about the worst thing you can do to an engine.. But the new
Z06s spin all the way up to 7000 with a hydraulic roller!!!

Guru_4_hire

We're back to with proper planning you can spin a hyd roller to the moon.

A good start would be:
Beehive springs
Titanium retainers
Hollow stem valves or titanium valves (Ferrea hollow stems will get you close to titanium at about half the cost; the LS7 has titanium valves)
Lightweight pushrods
AFR hydrarev kit
probably finding out the highest point acceleration at 6200 rpm and figure the same acceleration at whatever RPM you want to turn, probably resulting in a less aggressive lobe.

Jason Staley

Mmmmm, don't know about past 6500 rpm, but you can definitely get to 6500 rpm with a hydraulic without any problems.

I'm using GM's hot cam, Manley valves, springs, and titanium retainers, along with an AFR rev kit. I get no hint of valve float at 6500 rpm.

gkull

The dollar cost per hp makes it not worth it over a good solid cam setup in any sub 7000 rpm motor. All a larger lobe with steeper ramps does for you is that it can flow more air in a given amount of time.

gkull

So IMO the more air flow can be accomplished with better heads or roller cam, but it all comes back to minimal gains if you are rpm limited. To really create power you have to gain rpm. That is why a 358 ci NASCAR motor can produce 850 hp........ they spin them to over 9000 rpm every lap.


My S/R 383 is really fun to drive when combined to a 4.11 and 5 speed in a lightened Vette. But it is nothing when compared to the extra 50 cubic inches of my 434. I'd just save my pennies until you could make the jump to 440+ ci small blocks.

What was the outcome of your wiring blowing fuses?

gkull

268 cfm and 250 duration should be more than enough to spin a motor to 7500 rpm.

Does your motor really sound like a radical race motor?
The reason I ask is the cam could be advanced to far and shutting off flow at higher rpm. simply retarding it 6 degrees might
Bring the top end back.

It is true that 60's design solid cams had tiny lobes and very high claimed duration. It's numbers at the .200 lift that really show a cams true colors.

Like my racing lobe is 248@.050 and 170@.200 So big roller go nearly straight up and hold the valve open for a very long time.

Does it hit a wall at 6000 or does power go down so fast that it revs, but quits pulling?

My one motor 355 ci would hit a wall at just over 5000 rpm when I was stupid enough to try an Edl performer
and a 650 cfm. My friends told me that 650 was to small so I bought the 750 and it acted exactly the same
The problem was too small of intake runners. You can only go as fast as your worst bottle neck.

400hp427vette

Very interesting thanks for posting

Gordonm

The bottom end of the motor is quite capable of 7500 rpm. It is the upper end that is giving me fits. It does keep pulling after 6000 and will pull pretty good to 7000 rpm but that is not what the dyno showed. The cam is installed straight up. I degreed it in twice just to make sure. The valve springs are more than needed and they are fresh. I don't know what the numbers are @ .200 but I'll try to find out. It is a Comp XE 290S cam in there.

The fuse that was blowing I'm pretty sure was a loose console bulb. I also installed a 3 amp instead of a 5 amp fuse. The instrument lights are pulling 3 amps so it took a minute or so to blow. The AGA 5 amp fuses are tough to come by. I have some coming tomorrow morning.

Guru_4_hire

What do you have as a manifold? That is a pretty good camshaft? Would you like to try a camshaft. Front me shipping and you can borrow my weiand team G.

C3 Stroker

Having used both the hyd. roller and my present solid roller, I've noticed these differences:

1. The hyd. roller duration (because of zero lash) needs 10 degrees less to equal the solid.....240 hyd.= 250 solid.

2. The hyd. must use the rev kit to keep pulling to 6500 rpm smoothly, the solid does OK on its own. Because of this and the heavier hyd. roller lifters, you will have an overall lighter valvetrain with the solid set-up.

3. The hyd. is quieter.

4. The solid seems to have more overall torque and a broader torque curve... (maybe it's just my butt-o-meter feeling).

I have also noticed that when crate engine builders offer both a hyd. and a solid roller version of the same motor, the solid always has more horsepower. I have been told that it's easier to get more horsepower with the solid cam.

gkull

Do you have a local cam shop that can weld and resurface one cam lobe? I could mail you my original 383 ci Crane small base circle (.900) 232/240 112 S/R cam. It got dinged with a budget roller failure. Or you could buy the Crane 240/248 S/R cam.

Your into radical, so 240 on a street roller would work great. I'm a firm believer in the Crane pro roller lifters, heavy wall 5/16th .080 push rods, and the CC steel 1.6 roller 7/16th stud rockers.

CC 930 something number 1.56 springs and get the pressure installed to @ 180 - 200" seat closed.

Part Number: 118611 Grind Number: SR-240/362-2S-12.90 IG
Engine Identification:
Start Yr. End Yr. Make Cyl Description
1957 1987 CHEVROLET 8 FAIR IDLE, PERF. USAGE, W/MANIFOLD NITROUS SYSTEM, GOOD MID AND UPPER RPM TORQUE AND HP, BRACKET RACING, AUTO TRANS W/3500+ CONVERTER, 3800-4200 CRUISE RPM, 10.5 TO 12.0 COMPRESSION RATIO ADVISED, .900" BASE CIRCLE FOR LONG STROKE CLEARANCE. BASIC RPM 3500-7000
Engine Size Configuration
262-400 C.I. V
Valve Setting: Intake .020 Exhaust .020 HOT
Lift: Intake @Cam 362 @Valve 543 All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.
Exhaust @ Cam 374 @Valve 561
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.50
Cam Timing: TAPPET @.015
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 40.0 BTDC 74.0 ABDC 294.0 °
Exhaust 88.0 BBDC 34.0 ATDC 302.0 °
Spring Requirements: Triple Dual Outer Inner
Part Number 96870
Loads Closed 134 LBS @ 1.900 or 1 29/32
Open 358 LBS @ 1.380

Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 3400
Maximum RPM 7200
Valve Float 7500
Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
Lift: Opens Closes Max Lift Duration
Intake 13.0 BTDC 47.0 ABDC 107 240.0 °
Exhaust 61.0 BBDC 7.0 ATDC 117 248.0 °