odd eletrical problem 1971 car
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 5
From: Brown Summit North Carolina
odd eletrical problem 1971 car
Just noticed that the interior lights were not going out with doors closed.
Found that if I push in on the right side switch plunger the lights would go out.
1st. thought was an adjustment. But it turned out to be a short.
I placed eletricl tape on the door where it contacts the plunger and the light now goes out.
I guess the door is the ground???
I am guessing a new switch will solve this
David
Found that if I push in on the right side switch plunger the lights would go out.
1st. thought was an adjustment. But it turned out to be a short.
I placed eletricl tape on the door where it contacts the plunger and the light now goes out.
I guess the door is the ground???
I am guessing a new switch will solve this
David
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Just the opposite, the switch provides the ground to the frame/birdcage, when the button is pressed by the door, the ground to the bulb is removed and the light goes out...one white wire inside the kick panels ......
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 5
From: Brown Summit North Carolina
Thanks Mr. Vette. I am very weak on eletrical issues.
Would you agree that a new switch should correct?
If not what is the black tape on the door doing to turn the light off?
Thanks
David
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,117
Likes: 104
From: charlotte north carolina
the tape acts as a spacer to depress the switch and open the circuit. you should be able to unscrew the switch one or two turns, so that the switch protrudes more from the jamb. that's assuming that the threads in the switch and jamb area are not stripped. i have to admit that as a quick temporary fix, i used a piece of hose as a thin washer to space one or my switches. that was, oh, 6 months ago!!! i'll get to it one of these days.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
I would think the tape is insulating the plunger from grounding out on the metal door.Is the paint worn away at that spot on the door? I would think if you pull the switch out and look at it youll find the white wire contacting the plunger and it should not be in contact with the plunger shaft.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
THIS is where things get crazy and my memory a bit hazy as to perzactly which car had the 'problem'.....
you see, not all GM cars of this vintage had the same clearances from the door frame to the jamb where the switch is located...
so the VETTES as I recall had a wider gap there, not sure why, but so those switches were designed to have a inner sleeve press fitted into the bolt section that screwed into the birdcage/jamb.....so when the door was closed the first time at St. Louis, that pressed in the button to break contact on the lights, AND it also forced that sleeve into proper depth adjustment.....same for ALL GM cars of that vintage....
this was done because of various adjustments to align the doors and body...note that new cars put those switches on the latch side, not the hinge side....
so the vettes had longer switches on that inner sleeve than other cars....hense another vette only part.....
now, as I recall, I took a off the shelf generic cheepy and put in in the jamb, and it of course woked fine electrically, so I put a wood block on the door to take up the extra clearance, and fixed it for 3 bux and no waiting time.....
GOD, I"m cheep and lazy....
you see, not all GM cars of this vintage had the same clearances from the door frame to the jamb where the switch is located...
so the VETTES as I recall had a wider gap there, not sure why, but so those switches were designed to have a inner sleeve press fitted into the bolt section that screwed into the birdcage/jamb.....so when the door was closed the first time at St. Louis, that pressed in the button to break contact on the lights, AND it also forced that sleeve into proper depth adjustment.....same for ALL GM cars of that vintage....
this was done because of various adjustments to align the doors and body...note that new cars put those switches on the latch side, not the hinge side....
so the vettes had longer switches on that inner sleeve than other cars....hense another vette only part.....
now, as I recall, I took a off the shelf generic cheepy and put in in the jamb, and it of course woked fine electrically, so I put a wood block on the door to take up the extra clearance, and fixed it for 3 bux and no waiting time.....
GOD, I"m cheep and lazy....
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 5
From: Brown Summit North Carolina
Solved the problem / Turned out to be adjustment
This has turned out to be an adjustment issue after all.
The switch has a outer tuber that the plunger passes thru. That outer
tuber has come lose from the nut that screws into the jamb.
This has allowed both the tube and the plunger to be pushed inward away from the door by about 1/16" to 1/8". Just enough to prevent door from hitting plunger to break contact.
I backed the switch out a litte and the light now goes out.
The 2 pieces of tape on the door was actually just filling the gap between the door and the plunger to allow the plunger to be moved.
Thanks to all the advice.
Team work is always better than going it alone.
David
The switch has a outer tuber that the plunger passes thru. That outer
tuber has come lose from the nut that screws into the jamb.
This has allowed both the tube and the plunger to be pushed inward away from the door by about 1/16" to 1/8". Just enough to prevent door from hitting plunger to break contact.
I backed the switch out a litte and the light now goes out.
The 2 pieces of tape on the door was actually just filling the gap between the door and the plunger to allow the plunger to be moved.
Thanks to all the advice.
Team work is always better than going it alone.
David
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,802
Likes: 61
From: Wichita KS
I would think the tape is insulating the plunger from grounding out on the metal door.Is the paint worn away at that spot on the door? I would think if you pull the switch out and look at it youll find the white wire contacting the plunger and it should not be in contact with the plunger shaft.
If the light goes out when he pushed the plunger in then the plunger is not making contact with the door and needs to be screwed out a little at a time until the light goes out.
Over time, the plunger wears a depression into the fiberglass and if it gets deep enough the plunger won't break the connection. Especially if it was too far out to begin with. Hopefully he won't find a hole in the door where the plunger meets with it.
cc
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 5
From: Brown Summit North Carolina
I assuem you went to Carlisle and I hope you had a great time.
Your are correct on the dor. The area that pushes the plunger is metal.
And as said , it was an adjustment issue.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
The inner doors are metal with metal hinges bolted to a metal birdcage.They are usually grounded even without power windows.I've seen happen what I described to the OP but in his case I thought he was talking about a single thickness of tape not several but of course adjustment would be the first thing to check.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 5
From: Brown Summit North Carolina
The inner doors are metal with metal hinges bolted to a metal birdcage.They are usually grounded even without power windows.I've seen happen what I described to the OP but in his case I thought he was talking about a single thickness of tape not several but of course adjustment would be the first thing to check.
Thanks for your input. The crazy thing is that I had only used 2 layers of tape. This was not done for thickness , but to ensure a good insulation. Since at that time, I still felt it was an eletrical grimlin. I would have never guessed that the thickness of 2 layers of tape would make the difference in pushing the plunger.
Thanks
David
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,173
Likes: 4,250
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi David, again,
Yes, I was able to spend Thursday, Friday, and Yesterday at Carlisle. I had wonderful time! There is something there for anyone who's interested in Corvettes. There are beautifully restored cars, incredibly well thought out and built Resto-Rods, and all kinds of stock and modified newer cars. I think most people are amazed no matter how long they've been coming. You would love it. You should think about trying to attend some year.
Regards,
Alan
Yes, I was able to spend Thursday, Friday, and Yesterday at Carlisle. I had wonderful time! There is something there for anyone who's interested in Corvettes. There are beautifully restored cars, incredibly well thought out and built Resto-Rods, and all kinds of stock and modified newer cars. I think most people are amazed no matter how long they've been coming. You would love it. You should think about trying to attend some year.
Regards,
Alan
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 5
From: Fayetteville Arkansas
David,
Something you might want to check is the door panel retainer clip... you should have one near the front jamb and the rear jamb and these are little clips that hold the door panel bottom edges onto the door frame. The front retainer clip is what the interior light switch comes in contact with when the door is closed. When I got my int lights working again on my 72 they would turn off when the door was closed and I could, just like you, press the plunger of the switch in and the lights would turn off. Put some tape on the door and lights would go out... hmmm.... search the AIM and there it was... door retainer clips were missing.... Just my 2 cents on the issue and worth checking...
hth,
Sully
Something you might want to check is the door panel retainer clip... you should have one near the front jamb and the rear jamb and these are little clips that hold the door panel bottom edges onto the door frame. The front retainer clip is what the interior light switch comes in contact with when the door is closed. When I got my int lights working again on my 72 they would turn off when the door was closed and I could, just like you, press the plunger of the switch in and the lights would turn off. Put some tape on the door and lights would go out... hmmm.... search the AIM and there it was... door retainer clips were missing.... Just my 2 cents on the issue and worth checking...
hth,
Sully
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 5
From: Brown Summit North Carolina
David,
Something you might want to check is the door panel retainer clip... you should have one near the front jamb and the rear jamb and these are little clips that hold the door panel bottom edges onto the door frame. The front retainer clip is what the interior light switch comes in contact with when the door is closed. When I got my int lights working again on my 72 they would turn off when the door was closed and I could, just like you, press the plunger of the switch in and the lights would turn off. Put some tape on the door and lights would go out... hmmm.... search the AIM and there it was... door retainer clips were missing.... Just my 2 cents on the issue and worth checking...
hth,
Sully
Something you might want to check is the door panel retainer clip... you should have one near the front jamb and the rear jamb and these are little clips that hold the door panel bottom edges onto the door frame. The front retainer clip is what the interior light switch comes in contact with when the door is closed. When I got my int lights working again on my 72 they would turn off when the door was closed and I could, just like you, press the plunger of the switch in and the lights would turn off. Put some tape on the door and lights would go out... hmmm.... search the AIM and there it was... door retainer clips were missing.... Just my 2 cents on the issue and worth checking...
hth,
Sully
Thanks SULLY
This is good input. I will look at that.
David