M22: Symphony or cacophony?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
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From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
M22: Symphony or cacophony?
My A/C went out tonight and I can't sleep, so I thought I'd pose a little question to entertain myself. Hope it stirs the pot...
IMHO how one views the sounds emanating from the straighter cut gears of an M22 Muncie is a fair indication of which end of the car guy spectrum they gravitate towards.
Hardcores tend to feel the combination of an M22 and radio delete is perhaps the best sound package ever offered in a Corvette, the approximate equivalent to the proverbial 1,000 watt amp being a gear driven cam. Hence the term "gearhead".
At the other extreme, waxers would compare being subjected to a road trip in a Vette outfitted with a "Rockcrusher" to being forced to listen to Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" in its entirety.
So, how do you rate mechanical sounds such as those of an M22 on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being "symphony"), and do you have any stories or thoughts to share?
IMHO how one views the sounds emanating from the straighter cut gears of an M22 Muncie is a fair indication of which end of the car guy spectrum they gravitate towards.
Hardcores tend to feel the combination of an M22 and radio delete is perhaps the best sound package ever offered in a Corvette, the approximate equivalent to the proverbial 1,000 watt amp being a gear driven cam. Hence the term "gearhead".
At the other extreme, waxers would compare being subjected to a road trip in a Vette outfitted with a "Rockcrusher" to being forced to listen to Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" in its entirety.
So, how do you rate mechanical sounds such as those of an M22 on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being "symphony"), and do you have any stories or thoughts to share?
Last edited by TheSkunkWorks; Sep 12, 2008 at 04:32 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 7
From: Adelaide South Australia
Personally, being and old fart, I don't like excessive noises which end up making a long drive very tiring.
If you need the strength of a "Rock Crusher", but don't like the noise (which I don't) then get a TKO 600 box.
On another note.....
I'm surprised that no-one offers an electronic synthesisor which uses engine rpm and throttle position as input sensors to generate any motor symphony you would wish to create......
Imagine having a preset to make your car sound like a nitro funny car when you cruise slowly along the boulevard....
Or when tearing through the canyons, reset the audio to produce a nice blend of timing gear wail, supercharger whine and raucos open header sound at 1000 Watts rms ( and in Dolby 5.1 too ) ... alll echoing and reverberating from cliff face through to valley floor...
And if smokey the bear shows, just hit the mute button.
As we progress into the next generation of (hybrid) electric vehicles, this very concept would be an excellent sales option.... especially if the hybrid actually had some real performance.
If you need the strength of a "Rock Crusher", but don't like the noise (which I don't) then get a TKO 600 box.
On another note.....
I'm surprised that no-one offers an electronic synthesisor which uses engine rpm and throttle position as input sensors to generate any motor symphony you would wish to create......
Imagine having a preset to make your car sound like a nitro funny car when you cruise slowly along the boulevard....
Or when tearing through the canyons, reset the audio to produce a nice blend of timing gear wail, supercharger whine and raucos open header sound at 1000 Watts rms ( and in Dolby 5.1 too ) ... alll echoing and reverberating from cliff face through to valley floor...
And if smokey the bear shows, just hit the mute button.
As we progress into the next generation of (hybrid) electric vehicles, this very concept would be an excellent sales option.... especially if the hybrid actually had some real performance.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 854
Likes: 0
My A/C went out tonight and I can't sleep, so I thought I'd pose a little question to entertain myself. Hope it stirs the pot...
IMHO how one views the sounds emanating from the straighter cut gears of an M22 Muncie is a fair indication of which end of the car guy spectrum they gravitate towards.
Hardcores tend to feel the combination of an M22 and radio delete is perhaps the best sound package ever offered in a Corvette, the approximate equivalent to the proverbial 1,000 watt amp being a gear driven cam. Hence the term "gearhead".
At the other extreme, waxers would compare being subjected to a road trip in a Vette outfitted with a "Rockcrusher" to being forced to listen to Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" in its entirety.
So, how do you rate mechanical sounds such as those of an M22 on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being "symphony"), and do you have any stories or thoughts to share?
IMHO how one views the sounds emanating from the straighter cut gears of an M22 Muncie is a fair indication of which end of the car guy spectrum they gravitate towards.
Hardcores tend to feel the combination of an M22 and radio delete is perhaps the best sound package ever offered in a Corvette, the approximate equivalent to the proverbial 1,000 watt amp being a gear driven cam. Hence the term "gearhead".
At the other extreme, waxers would compare being subjected to a road trip in a Vette outfitted with a "Rockcrusher" to being forced to listen to Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" in its entirety.
So, how do you rate mechanical sounds such as those of an M22 on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being "symphony"), and do you have any stories or thoughts to share?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
On around town driving it was even interesting.
However I can imagine that on long trips it gets annoying. Point is that the rockcrusher is a good trans from a technical point of view.
That doesn't mean that I would not put in a TKO, but that would be for the 5th gear. A M22 type trans with 5th would be optimal in my case.
However I can imagine that on long trips it gets annoying. Point is that the rockcrusher is a good trans from a technical point of view.
That doesn't mean that I would not put in a TKO, but that would be for the 5th gear. A M22 type trans with 5th would be optimal in my case.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 14
From: Airdrie Alberta
M22 and radio delete is perhaps the best sound package ever offered in a Corvette
When growing up in the 60's a friend had a 69 427 with M22 and sidepipes....sounded like music to me, told him on occasion..."hey turn the stereo down, I can't hear the motor!"
I don't do long haul cruising in mine so the noise doesn't bother me
Last edited by hwcoop; Sep 12, 2008 at 08:16 AM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
As a young man I loved the noise.I never had the radio on while driving,needed to hear everything working.I had several Rockcrushers but they were in big block Camaro's and they functioned well but are they any better than the M21? I rebuild a lot 4 speeds for local shops and the only gear teeth I have ever seen broken are M22s.Is that because they are usually behind higher horsepower cars? Not an engineer but always wondered if the straight cut gears focused the stress too much causing the teeth to break.The angle cut in the M21 reminds me of the diff. ring gear with the stress sorta sliding across the face of the tooth never focusing at one point long enough to cause breakage.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,590
Likes: 403
From: Nashville TN
St. Jude Donor '09
I love the noise. It would be like putting on sidepipes but wanting them to be super quiet -- I don't get it. I think the noise makes a performance "statement" and generally, just sounds cool. Had a friend back in the mid-70's who had a '67 Camaro . . . I loved the way his 4-speed whined. I recently put a new stereo in my car to drown out some of the rattles and other obnoxious sounds that drive me crazy while driving. My goal now is to do some upgrades that wil drowned the stereo out.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,590
Likes: 403
From: Nashville TN
St. Jude Donor '09
Tell Elvis I said Hi!!! 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 14
From: Airdrie Alberta
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
As a young man I loved the noise.I never had the radio on while driving,needed to hear everything working.I had several Rockcrushers but they were in big block Camaro's and they functioned well but are they any better than the M21? I rebuild a lot 4 speeds for local shops and the only gear teeth I have ever seen broken are M22s.Is that because they are usually behind higher horsepower cars? Not an engineer but always wondered if the straight cut gears focused the stress too much causing the teeth to break.The angle cut in the M21 reminds me of the diff. ring gear with the stress sorta sliding across the face of the tooth never focusing at one point long enough to cause breakage.
Regarding breakage : its hard to tell what has caused it. You should take a good look at the breakage line to deduct a reason and also behind what engine it was used, how it was driven etc.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Not exactly true. While helical cut gears are quieter, they are also weaker. The strongest gear designs are straight-cut because the load is shared along the entire length of a tooth, not a sliding action loading part of a tooth at any instant. If you want the same strength with a helical gear, you have to make larger gears or get really creative with heat treatment. The reason you see more M22's that have broken is that they are more regularly abused than other 'boxes'. The folks that have the 'rockcrusher' M22's put wide racing slicks on the back and blowers/NO2 on the engine...and something is going to give!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 1
From: SOUTH ELGIN IL
Tell you what, I've had 2 M-22s and now this vette has a TH350. I was planning to pull it first off but have had a host of other issues more pressing that I wasn't expecting in the last year. I can say with certainty that I miss the whine of the straight cut gears. I actually turn the radio up so I forget it's NOT there.
Also, I agree with 7T1 Vette about strength of the straights vs helicals.
Also, I agree with 7T1 Vette about strength of the straights vs helicals.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
Actually, my previously posted locale is a suburb of Memphis, I felt a good many more people know where Graceland is. Besides, I grew up just around the corner from the mansion and have a number of anecdotes about the King. Thankyuverimushh... 
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,838
Likes: 13
From: Kingman AZ
Not exactly true. While helical cut gears are quieter, they are also weaker. The strongest gear designs are straight-cut because the load is shared along the entire length of a tooth, not a sliding action loading part of a tooth at any instant. If you want the same strength with a helical gear, you have to make larger gears or get really creative with heat treatment. The reason you see more M22's that have broken is that they are more regularly abused than other 'boxes'. The folks that have the 'rockcrusher' M22's put wide racing slicks on the back and blowers/NO2 on the engine...and something is going to give!
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,590
Likes: 403
From: Nashville TN
St. Jude Donor '09
I grew up in Whitehaven too, back in the 70's . . . Shelby Dr. and Airways area. Used to ride my bike by Graceland all the time when I was a kid.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
I will never forget how noisy my old M22 was, I loved hearing the pitch change when shifting gears. My ZF makes some whine but nothing like the M22. One day when I blow this T56 sky high its going to get straight cuts in it. I want it as loud as a dang schoolbus tranny 
