Blown Rings Possibly
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,319
Likes: 7
From: Wilmington DE, Drive it like you stole it, 68 327 4 speed coupe
That will prove the rings (good or bad). Intake gasket is another issue. I don't know how you would check that without lifting the manifold. Maybe someone else has a method to do that. I could tell you how to check it for sealing from outside air (vacuum leak) but not for leaks into the lifter valley. What color was the smoke? Did it have a blue tinge to it?
a low steady reading indicates a problem across all cylinders
a fluctuating reading is trouble in one area
a irregular wavering reading is trouble across more than once cylinder
irregular with increasing range as RPM's increase is indications of valve spring issues
irregular with decreasing range indicates intake leakage
irregular that steadies out with RPM's is usually timing or carb issues
As an engine is just basically a big air pump, you can tell a great deal from engine vaccuum for basic problem diagnosis and most of this can be found in the troubleshooting section of the old chiltons manual.
here is another old school tip,
a compression test with a low cylinder can be rings or valves (kep in mind what you saw when checking vaccum). if you find a low one pour about a table spoon of oil in that spark plug hole. if pressure jumps up, its usually rings
cheers
tim
Last edited by sweethence; Sep 18, 2008 at 12:25 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,319
Likes: 7
From: Wilmington DE, Drive it like you stole it, 68 327 4 speed coupe
Who told you how to break in a motor ? I had my new 427ci up to 5000RPM in second gear when it had 2 miles on it. That is what you should be doing to break in a new motor, babying it will not seat the rings. Anyway I doubt that is your problem.
Pull the plugs and see if one or two side by side are oily, if so it is the intake gasket
Pull the plugs and see if one or two side by side are oily, if so it is the intake gasket
an engine should be broken in that same way it will be driven. if it ws built right you shouldnt have to baby it. 1/4 mile runs should wait unless it was built for that but you sould be able to drive it as normal in fact you should to get those rings to seat right
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Soperton Georgia
Who told you how to break in a motor ? I had my new 427ci up to 5000RPM in second gear when it had 2 miles on it. That is what you should be doing to break in a new motor, babying it will not seat the rings. Anyway I doubt that is your problem.
Pull the plugs and see if one or two side by side are oily, if so it is the intake gasket
Pull the plugs and see if one or two side by side are oily, if so it is the intake gasket
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 8
From: Illinois
How can you tell if there is an intake leak when you pull the intake manifold off? I see this discussed but don't understand how an intake leak pull in oil and how to tell it was bad after you remove it. Thanks
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Marion Texas
Well I had it checked out and the diagnosis is a blown cylinder. So now my option is to pay someone to take it in and out for me and pay the shipping from TX to AZ to have it fixed or just to try and find someone here in TX to fix it which will more than likely void the warranty. Anyone have any input or suggestions on what I should do?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,989
Likes: 198
From: Meriden CT
That is kind of a vague diagnosis. They should be able to tell you what the malfunction is likely to be. Rings? Gasket? Valves? Cracked head? Then you can get an idea if the shipping costs are worth it or not. I would pull it, ship it back, and ask for a new one, but that's just my .02
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Do you have anything in writing from the engine builder on the warranty on the engine? What does it cover? Surely there is some recourse that will cause him to accept some financial responsibility for poor workmanship. You need to research this better to find out what your options are. Once you put a wrench to that engine, the builder no longer has any liability for damage. Since you are out-of-state, there has to be some way that he will pay a portion of the damages for repairs you have done locally.
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Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
Just call the shop that did your engine and ask them what they want you to do? If the engine is warranted, why would you just take it to someone else? Now, the build shop might OK that you take it somewhere in your area to get the work done, but they would call that shop and make necessary arrangements. If they screwed something up in the rebuild, let them take responsibility for fixing it. but a few simple tests wouldn't hurt. Don't foget the shop is very far and they may say bring it here, THEN WHAT. Do your compression & pressure tests first then call IMHO I opened up a can of worms with my Harley Dealer because I called them first....but that's another story.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Marion Texas
All it says it that it is a 1 year Unlimited mileage warranty. It also says no Labor will be made to remove/replace engine or short block assembly. Basically I have to pull it out, send it to them then they determine what to do by either fixing it or replacing it. It says if their insepection reveals damage or failure caused by factors not covered under the warranty, then they will charge me for all parts and labor used in repair or replacement. It is just hard dealing with them since they are out of state. I am thinking it might be best to just pull it out and ship it back to them. I know I didn't do anything wrong during the initial break in.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Marion Texas
I broke it in EXACTLY the way the instructions that they sent with the engine told me to. I followed it to a T with the exception of having it retorqued at 1000 miles cause it only made it to 650 when it started smoking, right before the oil change. So how it could be my fault, I have no clue.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,506
Likes: 139
From: Butler Pa
I broke it in EXACTLY the way the instructions that they sent with the engine told me to. I followed it to a T with the exception of having it retorqued at 1000 miles cause it only made it to 650 when it started smoking, right before the oil change. So how it could be my fault, I have no clue.
Again, what is wrong with it? This doesn't mean anything.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
#1 Have you called the engine builder? (I assume that you have.)
#2 Did you ask if you could have a local shop disassemble it far enough to find out what the problem is?
#3 Did you ask if he would cover any of the repair if you have it done locally by a shop of your mutual agreement?
If you have done the above items and he only will accept responsibility if you ship it to him, you can be certain that when he receives it and checks it out....YOU will be the responsible party and will pay all of the costs plus shipping back and forth.
If it were me [and it's not, of course], I would call him and tell him that he's being unreasonable and should be willing to let a third-party repair shop (he can help select and/or call and talk to them if he wants) disassemble it to find the problem(s). Then you and he can come to agreement on how the repair bill is split (depending on fault). If he doesn't like that, tell him you'll be contacting the Arizona State Attorney General Office to ask what recourse you might have against his shop. If the guy is basically honest, he'll work with you; if he's not....he won't.
#2 Did you ask if you could have a local shop disassemble it far enough to find out what the problem is?
#3 Did you ask if he would cover any of the repair if you have it done locally by a shop of your mutual agreement?
If you have done the above items and he only will accept responsibility if you ship it to him, you can be certain that when he receives it and checks it out....YOU will be the responsible party and will pay all of the costs plus shipping back and forth.
If it were me [and it's not, of course], I would call him and tell him that he's being unreasonable and should be willing to let a third-party repair shop (he can help select and/or call and talk to them if he wants) disassemble it to find the problem(s). Then you and he can come to agreement on how the repair bill is split (depending on fault). If he doesn't like that, tell him you'll be contacting the Arizona State Attorney General Office to ask what recourse you might have against his shop. If the guy is basically honest, he'll work with you; if he's not....he won't.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Marion Texas
7T1Vette: Thanks for the input. I have called them but that was before I had it looked at. I will call them again tomorrow since I have the day off and see what they say. I liked your suggestions. Hopefully they will work with me and allow someone to look at it here in the San Antonio area. Just seems like alot of work to ship it back and forth but I guess thats how they make their $. Thanks again.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
So did you test anything yet??? I know your down and the last thing you want is to mess with your brand new engine but it's pretty easy stuff. My brother-in-law is out buy you, he is one of the head techs at Cambridge auto repair. From what he said, "we're a little more than everyone else but we stand behind are work". Take that with a grain of salt but the owner love hot rod chevys maybe they can help you out running a few basic tests to see were you are at.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Marion Texas
I took it to a friend of my gf's Dad's that used to build 350's. He told me that he took the manifold off and oil was going everywhere. He told me it was a blown cylinder. I am pretty upset cause of the amount of $ I put into it. My main concern is to get her back on the road and its hard when you buy an engine from a shop online that is a few states away. I just want to take it to a shop and get a 2nd opinion. So Cambridge auto repair is in San Antonio? I will have to look it up. I will try to get it there this weekend. Thanks for your help and input Hugie82
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
I took it to a friend of my gf's Dad's that used to build 350's. He told me that he took the manifold off and oil was going everywhere. He told me it was a blown cylinder. I am pretty upset cause of the amount of $ I put into it. My main concern is to get her back on the road and its hard when you buy an engine from a shop online that is a few states away. I just want to take it to a shop and get a 2nd opinion. So Cambridge auto repair is in San Antonio? I will have to look it up. I will try to get it there this weekend. Thanks for your help and input Hugie82