I want to build a stroker motor, something around 427 to 430. What is the difference between the Dart little M and the SHP. I want the HP around 500+. The car will have a 200r4 and a 355 rear end.
Thanks

 

You should hit up Carl at CNC Blocks to discuss the differences, he offers very competitive pricing for fully machined DART blocks ready to go. www.cncblocksnortheast.com

 

Thanks!

 

I can't see where a CNC block is required for a little over 1 HP/CID.

Ether block would be fine at those power levels.

 

Here is a quick review Carl did of the SHP block.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12112

 

At only 500 or so HP a 400 GM block is going to work. A 421 is an easy build with a 400 block and will last at those power levels. If your looking for 430+ ci and 600+ HP then the aftermarket blocks are needed.

 

"2.6407 the 3 center caps were 2.641 and front cap is 2.6408 as this will have to be addressed with a line hone. "

ROTF, L - correcting .0002/.0003 difference with an align hone. This is why race shops should never try to do street engine work.

 

I personally wouldn't build a used 400 block past about 450HP - and that only with aftermarket steel caps. By the time you invest in everything required to get that block up to the power level either a new factory 4-bolt roller block or a good used one would be a better investment - even if you only get 383 or 396 CID. Definitely agree regarding the CID boundary and HP boundray where an aftermarket block is really *required*.

Budget is probably the next question...which will honestly end up being the determining factor.

 

Always is.

I would not build an old one myself, I would get an aftermarket. Just saying what has worked in the past. I run a 385 at about 500 HP on a stock block now. If I were to do it again 430+ ci at 600 HP would be the least I would do. Why waste all the ci and only make 500 HP

 

No pushback; are you running a 350 or a 400 stock block? It's the 400 blocks I worry about, just because of the weak caps.

Definitely hear you about CID...but that gets expen$ive too beyond just the block.

 

I have a stock 350 numbers matching block and trans. I want to put the engine and trans away and have some fun with the car. I will have to buy a block anyway and want to go big inch without going to a big block. I like the handling better with the small block.
Thanks to all

 

Mine is an old style, non roller 010 350 block. Nothing special just paid a bunch to have it machined correctly.

If you have to buy a block go aftermarket, most if not all the machine work will be already done.

 

That's what I was hoping for. I don't want to deal with a machine shop. I want to purchase the right parts and build it myself. I want it reliable and to just touch the 500 HP level.

 

A solid 350 block is a great foundation; I have no hesistation at all using a used or new factory block to 550HP or so.

A NEW factory roller block (GMPP 10105123) is similarly ready for assembly - and at $800 or so vs. $2000 for an aftermarket it would be hard for me to justify for a build unless there's a need for power above what a stock block can handle or we're looking at forced induction. If you must have the CID, then it's a different matter, as the aftermarket blocks can be had with 4.125 bores and room for some serious stroke.

IMHO, if you feel that you must have the big CID (> 383 CID) and you've got a big budget - go for an aftermarket block. But for the power levels you want to make, you don't need to.

I would offer that the idea you can put this together "off the shelf" without a machine shop in the mix is not the case, but again that's just IMHO after building a couple of hundred of these

 

We ship a lot of Dart and Bowtie blocks to other engines shops and builders all over and .0003 means alot to the builders we work with and customers want the best they can get when building a performance engine for the street of strip or circle track appication ETC.

When fitting bearings up .0003 tenths is a lot.

I can only imagine how you are putting together engines when .0003 does not make a differance to you and your the guy that questioned plate honing and if it makes a differance.

We don't build STOCK street engines but only deal with the performance engines whether they are street, strip, oval track and marine.

I am sure you have never line honed a block in your life and probably .003 differance in the housing bores does not make a differance to you

 

Y'know, I'm getting really tired of your personal attacks and . I am putting engines together the way that most people would in this situation - using 1/2 shell .001 undersize bearings where needed. I can't believe how little you know about street performance engines and I just can't see anyone that's ever read your posts on this board using your shop. Every time you post you make my point exactly - race shops are absolutely the worst place to go for a street performance engine. If you don't know this bearing trick, I'd be happy to lay it out for you.

And you're still just unwilling to actually read what I posted about torque plate honing. Until you do, why don't you just drop it?

Do you even own a Corvette?

 

Before you start blurting out flase info. and misleading people that a 10105123 block is good for 550 horse or so you may, You may want to look in the latest GM catalog as they only rate the Mexican made block at 350 horse. But I am sure that you know more then the GM engineers I can tell

Hell Dart rates their SHP block at 600 horse and its twice the block the 10105123 block is and your saying the GM block is as good with stock grey cast caps and the bore range is 4.000 to 4.030

We have machined quite a few of them over the years and we have sent quite a few back to GM because they did not sonic test very good, The ones we have machined for over 500 horse we have had to add billet caps ETC. and have you ever checked the deck heights of those stock blocks as they are not even close to what the Dart blocks are.

By the time you buy a GM block for 800 bucks add caps straighten out GM's work you can just about buy a SHP block all machined and its rated at 600 horse not 350 horse like the GM block you mentioned.

By the way we do work on street performance engines he is a link to look over.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244869

 

If you want 500HP build a 406ci and use a stock OEM 400 block with ARP main studs. Get some AFR 195 Eliminators and a roller cam in the 240-250 duration range with about 10.5:1 cr and you are there , real simple you don't even have to clearance the block

 

If you only looking for 500 horse the SHP block would be the way to go as you should be able to acheive that kind of power with a 383,400,406,410 the block is machined for a 3.750 stroke crank with steel rods and with a set of the AFR eliminators. The SHP is set up like the factory roller blocks.

The 400 blocks seem to be a crap shoot as we had a customer bring one in and he had paid 350 dollars for a complete engine and after we sonic tested the clylinders there was one at .138 on the thrust side, I am sure its on EBAY by now. Now he has 350 dollars for a block that is no good 40 bucks in sonic testing and the crank had a spun rod bearing and that is junk as well. I bet he won't be buying another GM block!!!!!!!!!!



Here is a link to those blocks.
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12112

The Little-M Sportsman block will take a 3.875 stroke with most steel rods and can be bored out 4.185 bore (426 CID) and those blocks have nodular iron caps and the front and rear are 2 bolt caps and the rear caps uses 1/2 bolts, The 3 centers are splayed.

The Little-M Billet cap block has all 4 bolt caps and is set up for a front oiler other then that its the same casting as the Sportsman block.

 

*sigh* Once again, clueless. I've built several engines near that HP with a stock factory block - as have thousands of others. I'm not surprised that you've never seen a stock block built to that power level...just because you don't know how. The GMPP ratings are always conservative...but you wouldn't know that.

I guess everyone here has to buy one of your expen$ive blocks to make power Now THAT'S "flase" and misleading.

Always nice to see you being consistent - never answer a question, always full of and always on the attack.

Do you even own a Corvette?