Royal Purple Bad?
Pro
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 625
Likes: 49
From: Southern California
on that one. Your buddy is obviously yanking your chain and having a good laugh at your expense. Just stop and think about what you are saying. Insurance companies have said that putting 12,000 miles a year on a car is the national average, but of course "your results may vary". If your "buddy" put that many miles on the car each year, it would take him 33 years to put on 400,000 miles. How many people ever keep a car that long? And that 6 banger Pontiac is certainly no collector car. Not to mention the fact that actual collector cars don't usually see all that many miles. So, it all sounds incredibly bogus, like finding a brand new '57 BelAir in some long lost warehouse. Yeah, that'll happen.......
Last edited by 540 RAT; Dec 4, 2008 at 03:54 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Well the horse is dead so I won't kick it, but I have a question no one seems to have addressed.
I was told (or heard) that synthetic oil was sooo slipery that when used on a vehicle that sat for a month or longer without being started, the oil would literally slid off the cam as well as other parts). This creates an ugly environment for starting the engine...dry for a few seconds.
Any thuth to this?
BTW I do use synthetic in my daily driver and Diesil in my Vett (for the lifters)
I was told (or heard) that synthetic oil was sooo slipery that when used on a vehicle that sat for a month or longer without being started, the oil would literally slid off the cam as well as other parts). This creates an ugly environment for starting the engine...dry for a few seconds.
Any thuth to this?
BTW I do use synthetic in my daily driver and Diesil in my Vett (for the lifters)
By the way- the amount of residual oil was comparable to that left by conventional lubricants under similar circumstances.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
I honestly feel, though, that the 200,000 mile engine MAY have gone 250,000 if it had a a synthetic rather than a conventional oil based on the science and data available. Conclusive, no but an extrapolation based on real world experience, racing history, and data available.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 121
From: Sulphur LA
St. Jude Donor '05-'06,'11,'13-'14,'16,'18,'19,'24, '25
Mike you ever took an old chvey SB apart that had so much parafins left in the head from the oil that the rear return holes were plugged? Down here in the south this was a major issue on engines with a few miles on them. You ever try and clean the ring groves on an engine that had a few miles on it during a rebuild?
No ill intent here, just a good debate
Mike works in the aircraft industry and they seem to have some very reliable equipment in that industry, they have deffinantly done there home work. I remember reading that this is the industry synthetics were developed for, in the aircraft industry.
Neal
No ill intent here, just a good debate
Mike works in the aircraft industry and they seem to have some very reliable equipment in that industry, they have deffinantly done there home work. I remember reading that this is the industry synthetics were developed for, in the aircraft industry.
Neal
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Mike you ever took an old chvey SB apart that had so much parafins left in the head from the oil that the rear return holes were plugged? Down here in the south this was a major issue on engines with a few miles on them. You ever try and clean the ring groves on an engine that had a few miles on it during a rebuild?
No ill intent here, just a good debate
Mike works in the aircraft industry and they seem to have some very reliable equipment in that industry, they have deffinantly done there home work. I remember reading that this is the industry synthetics were developed for, in the aircraft industry.
Neal
No ill intent here, just a good debate
Mike works in the aircraft industry and they seem to have some very reliable equipment in that industry, they have deffinantly done there home work. I remember reading that this is the industry synthetics were developed for, in the aircraft industry.
Neal
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 121
From: Sulphur LA
St. Jude Donor '05-'06,'11,'13-'14,'16,'18,'19,'24, '25
Mike, I will agree that maybe a group I, II or III synthetic oil may leave impurities but they just are not there with the group IV and V base oils. And the cleaning properties of the group IV and V oils are much better than the lower groups.
Are you saying that you have seen no benefit at all to using synthetics or are you saying that with good maintenance regular oils will do the job?
Maybe we need to define synthetic when we have these discussions, there may be some benefits using group I,II and III base oils but I don't consider them true synthetics. The benefits of true synthetics are there in being able to withstand higher temps before breaking down, the volatility rate of true synthetics is half of what standard oil is, and there cleaning properties are better, these are just a few of the benefits.
Everyone has to ask them selves if the added benefits are worth the extra cost.
Neal
Are you saying that you have seen no benefit at all to using synthetics or are you saying that with good maintenance regular oils will do the job?
Maybe we need to define synthetic when we have these discussions, there may be some benefits using group I,II and III base oils but I don't consider them true synthetics. The benefits of true synthetics are there in being able to withstand higher temps before breaking down, the volatility rate of true synthetics is half of what standard oil is, and there cleaning properties are better, these are just a few of the benefits.
Everyone has to ask them selves if the added benefits are worth the extra cost.
Neal
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Pro
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 625
Likes: 49
From: Southern California
Is this the one you are talking about?
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
If you are talking about another test, please post a link here so everyone can take a look at it as well.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Synthetics oils were developed for gas turbine engines to address a particular technical issue (nothing to do with lubrication BTW). This issue does not exist on most conventional piston engines, certainly not SBC or BBC engines, so synthetics are the perfect solution for something that's not broken.
The audio equivalent is developing speakers that can faithfully reproduce a 50kHz signal, whereas humans can't hear anything above 20kHz.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 0
From: Henrico VA
We know that smaller molecules will fill in holes better and have fewer ridges (making it slippery). There should also be fewer body forces on them to prevent them from doing their job.
What about extreme conditions? What does oil turn to in cold weather -- jello! And it breaks down in extreme heat. Synthetic is better in both cases due to the additives. There is hard data out there that 40% of engine wear is caused by cold starts.
Can you provide any explanaion as to why synthetic wouldn't decrease wear?
Also, Brian at SKSpeed (who's been testing everything for 40 years, said Royal Purple is better for engines, but no better for gear boxes). He built my transmission, so I trust his tests and don't mind $7/quart.
My engine actually got quieter the first time I put it in. I didn't like that part.
What about extreme conditions? What does oil turn to in cold weather -- jello! And it breaks down in extreme heat. Synthetic is better in both cases due to the additives. There is hard data out there that 40% of engine wear is caused by cold starts.
Can you provide any explanaion as to why synthetic wouldn't decrease wear?
Also, Brian at SKSpeed (who's been testing everything for 40 years, said Royal Purple is better for engines, but no better for gear boxes). He built my transmission, so I trust his tests and don't mind $7/quart.
My engine actually got quieter the first time I put it in. I didn't like that part.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,226
Likes: 2
From: Lake Wylie SC
Other than certain early development stage one synthetics penetrating seals and gaskets therefore creating leaks, IMO the argument is mute.......... kinda like comparing leather to kevlar for MC riding protection........... they both work but one would have to have never ridden on two wheels not to know and appreciate the difference.
Doug
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
People can argue theory all they want. Show me proof.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,246
Likes: 4
From: Bay Area CA
Is this the one you are talking about?
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
If you are talking about another test, please post a link here so everyone can take a look at it as well.
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
If you are talking about another test, please post a link here so everyone can take a look at it as well.
