told me to use Lucas syn. they broke the engine in with shell rotella. since they warranty the engine, i'll due what they say.

 

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
Afer reading this I have been using royal purple ever since.

 

Well I don't know any chemists or engineers but MY facts are a 91 Camaro with over 135, 000 on it and counting using Castrol GTX 10w-30 and my truck I bought new in 2000 has had nothing but Mobil1 5W-30 and has over 112,000 on the clock and not an issue with it either....sorry I can't get any scientific evidence to prove it.

Dave

 

I heard RP is so good it also restores virginal flowers, enlightens despots and turns water into wine. Somebody said it ... so ... it must be true. What's that they say about perception?

 

Debating oil with car guys is

 

Poor horse.

 

Royal Purple Bad, I heard it turns your tongue black.

 

As I mentioned in the other current oil related thread, using the term "synthetic" is a little misleading. Group III highly hydroprocessed mineral oil basestock, Group IV PAO basestock, and Group V polyol ester basestock oils can all be labeled "synthetic". But each synthetic basestock impacts seals differently.

Group III's impact on seals isn't any different from conventional oils due to the similarity of the basestock. Group IV PAO basestock causes seals to shrink. Group V polyol ester basestock cause seals to swell. In the early days of synthetics, most were PAO basestock. This basestock caused seals to shrink and lead to leakage. This was compounded as synthetics have better natural cleansing properties along with a generally higher level of detergents. Both combined to clean out sludge that had built up exposing old dried out seals to fresh oil, oil that caused the seals to shrink, thus leakage.

This was a long time ago. In the interim, the oil companies learned that by adding a small amount of polyol ester to a predominantly PAO basestock fluid, the fluid's coefficient of friction dropped significantly, and the resulting fluid caused porous materials to swell sightly vice shrink. Thus, in general, a high quality modern synthetic shouldn't cause a seal to leak unless it has mechanical damage that was masked by sludge built up over time.

As for the quality of RP, I clearly chose to use, and later market, AMSOIL. While AMSOIL hasn't included RP in all of its comparative testing yet, they have in some:
AMSOIL Motorcycle Oil “White Paper” (1 MB pdf file)
AMSOIL Gear Lube "White Paper" (2 MB pdf file)

And there is some wear tests on these AMSOIL product data pages:
AMSOIL Dominator Racing 10w30
AMSOIL Dominator Racing 15w50

Many will say that the 4-ball wear test isn't appropriate for an automotive motoroil, but based on my own personal review of hundreds of used oil analysis reports on the oil forums, there seems to be a pretty good correlation between a low 4-ball wear result and low wear results in actual service. For me, that carried weight, but to each his own.

 

Excellent independent test. I buy Royal Purple by the 5 gallon container
and have every since it has been out. Hot Rod performed the dyno test against other synthetics and it made 5 to 7 more hp than all others.
I use it in every piston engine I own and trans/rearend. Its the best!

Quite frankly I can tell a difference in power vs amsoil when I drained one and replaced it with another in my ZR1.

 

over 366,000 on hard driven 83 supra, dual overhead cams, inline 6, used Quaker State, Castrol, Vavoline dino oil from beginning, motor never apart yet (knock on wood) change oil every 3-5,000 miles. Mobil 1 on C5, whatever works for you is my motto

 

When it came to choosing an oil for my vette, I took a cue from my other vehicles: two Subaru outbacks. Both have 250,000 miles on them (that's half a million total), neither burns a drop of oil, and they both run daily at highway speeds (70+MPH). Those flat, four cylinder motors use conventional oil which is changed religiously every 4K miles. Based on this, I use a good grade dino oil (GTX) in my SBC and change it around 3,000. No problems.

Although I am a scientist, I'm not an expert in tribology (the study of friction and lubrication). However, I have worked with solid lubricant additives in greases (moly disulfide, polycarbon monofluoride, etc...) and understand friction testing. Good data from an independent test lab is tough to come by, because somebody has to fund the study. If the product from the funding organization dosen't come out on top, then it dosen't get published.

I have a couple of ongoing tests parked in my driveway that have told me what I need to know.

 

Just reading some trivia the other day mentioning that GM built 90 MILLION (yes million) SBCs over the years.

Amazing how the vast majority lived very long and healthy lives without the need for ultra super zoomy oils.

Anybody in the engine overhaul business will tell you that those engines that went full term did not need a shop visit for lubrication related reasons. They'll also tell you that an engine that is failing cannot be 'saved' by ultra super zoomy oils.

But I'm wasting my time stating this.

 

yes but for how many years did those engines with the flat tappets get oil changes with the correct type of additive packages in it. i mean for the longest time all oil on the shelf had zddp in it.

 

This is true, but why would you buy $8/qt. superzoomy when you can get a GALLON of Rotella or Delo with zddp in it for the same amount??? Keep beatin' that horse!!

 

i am just playing devils advocate here. i use rotella myself because my father in law buys it by the drum for his machinery. i ido have cases of the mobil 15w50 for my racebikes though and am thinking of trying that. peope are not talking about saving anything that is already gone but if wear tests shows that if i spend an extra 30 bucks a year for oil changing to save wear on my cam then i think that is a great investment. maybe you can afford to change cams every time one wipes but i cant.

i dont believe in hearsay. i believe in cold hard facts so all this discussion is pure speculation until someone posts up some oil analysis. showing wear of one oil and then wear with another oil in an actual engine by an actual consumer. all other stuff is merely advertisement wrapped in a scientific looking wrapper. oil is kinda like religion. once someones mind is made up, every one else is an idiot.

 

Please see my previous comments on this thread as well. Again, any oil will WORK if it is good quality conventional or synthetic oil. Again, synthetic oil is basically a more refined CONVENTIONAL oil with uniform sized molecules (its major strength) and a different additive package versus its conventional counterparts. They are both OIL! If you use a moderately priced synthetic oil (Mobil 1, Castrol, Pennzoil) the price difference versus a conventional oil is minimal. For example, Mobil1 15W-50 at walmart is $27 for 5 qts (5 Qt container)or at Costco 6 1 Qt containers for Mobil 1 15W-50 is $31. At that price, why wouldn't someone use a synthetic? By the way, for all you dino oil lovers especially the Shell Rotella T 15W-40 crowd, 3 GALLONS FOR $30 AT COSTCO! I change the oil in my 78 once a year. At these prices, it doesn't matter which one you use, if cost is your issue! All engines will eventually wear out whether it is 200,000, 300,000 miles, etc regardless of the oil. I honestly feel, though, that the 200,000 mile engine MAY have gone 250,000 if it had a a synthetic rather than a conventional oil based on the science and data available. Conclusive, no but an extrapolation based on real world experience, racing history, and data available. By the way, I have a friend with a supercharged 3.8 pontiac grand prix that has run Mobil 1 since new with 400,000 miles on the engine and still going strong!

 

The one true way to test an oil within true conditions is to have oil analysis done on the oil during its life within your engine. One test does not tell the hole story you will need to have multiple tests done over time. There is a web site that has a lot of data that you can sift through if you want, but in most cases there are two oils that return the better data from analysis. The owner does not push either one but does sell a different brand than these.

Lifter failures, ring failures, and cruded up engines can all be a result of oils not doing there job. The internals of an engine can get pretty cruded up from the impurities of conventional oils.

Carbon build up is a major cause of engine failures.

 

Wow, somebody has done a real sales job on you! Hope that snake oil tastes good.

 

Will the real Elvis please stand up

SEMPER FI--1970 Dave

 

Well the horse is dead so I won't kick it, but I have a question no one seems to have addressed.
I was told (or heard) that synthetic oil was sooo slipery that when used on a vehicle that sat for a month or longer without being started, the oil would literally slid off the cam as well as other parts). This creates an ugly environment for starting the engine...dry for a few seconds.
Any thuth to this?
BTW I do use synthetic in my daily driver and Diesil in my Vett (for the lifters)