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Old Dec 17, 2008 | 11:44 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by MotorHead
I don't even have a Valve Spring Height Micrometer and I have most tools known to mankind
I noticed you had every fine tool known to man is that all yours or
some borrowed.

valve spring mikes are so cheap buy one just to say you own one.
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Old Dec 17, 2008 | 11:48 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Little Mouse
I noticed you had every fine tool known to man is that all yours or
some borrowed.

valve spring mikes are so cheap buy one just to say you own one.
Unfortunately all paid for by me, even the Chinese VSM's are 50 bananas
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Old Dec 18, 2008 | 12:01 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by MotorHead
Unfortunately all paid for by me, even the Chinese VSM's are 50 bananas
I used to have the antique stuff. had a van stolen foolish enough to have to many good things in it. lost a lot of stuff never have replaced.
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Old Dec 18, 2008 | 10:00 AM
  #124  
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The 26120 are a compcams beehive spring with a thicker wire and taller installed height, which leads to a higher coil bind height. Its also signifigantly heavier than the other beehive springs, but not as heavy as a typical dual spring.

I was going to have wally's performance do the assembly/machine work I cant do.

64 bucks for 200 dollar springs with their 50 dollar retainers isnt to bad. Now for the dart side, have you seen the prices on 10 degree locks

Last edited by Guru_4_hire; Dec 18, 2008 at 10:30 AM.
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Old Dec 18, 2008 | 11:00 AM
  #125  
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I don't like the beehive springs, if one breaks it's game over, you drop a valve, with dual springs they both ain't gonna break at the same time
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Old Dec 18, 2008 | 11:28 AM
  #126  
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That is a reasonable observation.
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Old Dec 18, 2008 | 12:52 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Guru_4_hire
The 26120 are a compcams beehive spring with a thicker wire and taller installed height, which leads to a higher coil bind height. Its also signifigantly heavier than the other beehive springs, but not as heavy as a typical dual spring.

I was going to have wally's performance do the assembly/machine work I cant do.

64 bucks for 200 dollar springs with their 50 dollar retainers isnt to bad. Now for the dart side, have you seen the prices on 10 degree locks
you have no need for 10 degree locks. all there good for is extremely stiff valve springs to aid in removing them, in fact a 7 degree is harder to pull through a retainer then a 10 degree, if you don't have 550 plus springs you have no need for them.

Springs most the time that break are the real stiff stuff on roller cams, but thats is a point the second spring could come in handy.
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Old Dec 19, 2008 | 04:25 PM
  #128  
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I built myself a high rpm small block based on a 400 with a 3.25 crank and 6.250 long rods.
The cam is a radical one with a mayor intensity of 32°.
I yet have to find out what it will do on the street.
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Old Dec 20, 2008 | 11:15 AM
  #129  
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Valve springs break from fatigue (only an issue on high-RPM racing engines) or clearances (over-revving (racing) or incorrect design/assembly checking). IMHO, I wouldn't give up the clear benefits of the beehives because of the (remote) possibility of catastrophic failure.

Personally, the only valve springs I've ever seen break were from coil bind when a new cam was installed without checking, or when high-milage springs were suddenly subjected to a heavy right foot
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Old Dec 20, 2008 | 01:30 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Belgian1979vette
I built myself a high rpm small block based on a 400 with a 3.25 crank and 6.250 long rods.
The cam is a radical one with a mayor intensity of 32°.
I yet have to find out what it will do on the street.
Sounds different, tell us more about it.
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Old Dec 21, 2008 | 10:21 AM
  #131  
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The shorter stroke combined with the bigger bores allow for more rpm since piston mean speed is lower. The engine has something like 354 ci. which is a regular small block size. The bigger bore allows for better filling of the cylinders since there is less shrouding. You can also deshroud the valves in the head better.
The lower piston speeds mean that the air charge can catch up better with the piston and improve filling.

The longer rods produces less drag on the cylinder walls, reducing drag and improving the rod angle, which extracts more power from the burning gases above it.
The pistons also moves slower away from TDC and faster from BDC. This makes for more power since pressures rise much faster at tdc but it also makes this engine more sensitive to long cam durations.

Since CR was somewhat limited to a practical 10/1 there are limitations regarding the kind of cam that you can use with it. Since DCR is dependant on the point on which the valve completly closes you can reach the same goal by making the number of degrees between the advertised duration and the .05 number as low as practically possible. I went to a custom roller for this.

Full specs are :
400 ci sbc
3.25" steel crank
6.25 oliver rods
JE pistons, CR 10/1 (regular off the shelf pistons meant for a 400 with 6" rods)
Dart pro 1 215's
Crane roller cam
Crossram ITB Fuel injected manifold on top with computerized ignition.
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Old Dec 21, 2008 | 01:28 PM
  #132  
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Belgian that sounds similiar to my 388, 4.125 bore/ 3.625 stroke
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Old Dec 22, 2008 | 12:22 PM
  #133  
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I went to a 1.92 rod/stroke ratio. I'm not sure which rod you use, but I'm assuming that you are somewhere around 1.6-1.7. In that respect it is not the same.
Most of the big inch engines are more or less engineered towards high tq at low rpm.
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Old Dec 22, 2008 | 01:14 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Belgian1979vette
The shorter stroke combined with the bigger bores allow for more rpm since piston mean speed is lower. The engine has something like 354 ci. which is a regular small block size. The bigger bore allows for better filling of the cylinders since there is less shrouding. You can also deshroud the valves in the head better.
The lower piston speeds mean that the air charge can catch up better with the piston and improve filling.

The longer rods produces less drag on the cylinder walls, reducing drag and improving the rod angle, which extracts more power from the burning gases above it.
The pistons also moves slower away from TDC and faster from BDC. This makes for more power since pressures rise much faster at tdc but it also makes this engine more sensitive to long cam durations.

Since CR was somewhat limited to a practical 10/1 there are limitations regarding the kind of cam that you can use with it. Since DCR is dependant on the point on which the valve completly closes you can reach the same goal by making the number of degrees between the advertised duration and the .05 number as low as practically possible. I went to a custom roller for this.

Full specs are :
400 ci sbc
3.25" steel crank
6.25 oliver rods
JE pistons, CR 10/1 (regular off the shelf pistons meant for a 400 with 6" rods)
Dart pro 1 215's
Crane roller cam
Crossram ITB Fuel injected manifold on top with computerized ignition.
1.000 comp. distance 1/16 rings.

I have a set of 6.250 eagle H-beam. what kind of oliver rod do you have expensive ?
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Old Dec 22, 2008 | 01:44 PM
  #135  
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They are expensive, don't remember the price anymore more however, my guess is somewhere around 2000 $ for a set. They are however the best rods, money can buy. If you want to have your engine survive at high rpm, you need strong rods.

The olivers are not only strong but also pretty light compared to the competition and as far as the machining goes, they are worth their money. Dead on.
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Old Dec 22, 2008 | 02:01 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by Belgian1979vette
They are expensive, don't remember the price anymore more however, my guess is somewhere around 2000 $ for a set. They are however the best rods, money can buy. If you want to have your engine survive at high rpm, you need strong rods.

The olivers are not only strong but also pretty light compared to the competition and as far as the machining goes, they are worth their money. Dead on.
Most billet rods are around $1400.00/1500.00.

One place I would like to loose a little weight in is the pin & piston.
at least the pin if I can't do it with the piston to. theres some pretty high grades of steel for pins.
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Old Dec 22, 2008 | 02:11 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Little Mouse
Most billet rods are around $1400.00/1500.00.

One place I would like to loose a little weight in is the pin & piston.
at least the pin if I can't do it with the piston to. theres some pretty high grades of steel for pins.
If you go to a 1000 compression height the piston will be very small and light. I would not lighten the pin, since it keeps everything together.
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Old Dec 22, 2008 | 02:28 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by Belgian1979vette
If you go to a 1000 compression height the piston will be very small and light. I would not lighten the pin, since it keeps everything together.
Depends on pistons a lot of them have gone to shorter pins. but if you go thinner use a much higher grade of steel its just a matter of upgrading, heck the thing nots going to be on an oval track kept at very high rpms for long periods of time anyway. at best it would see high revs for part of a few seconds on a drag strip to maybe a few minutes on the street.

I shifted just below 8000 rpm with factory rods with old heavy TRW pistons in a 302, 331, 355, 396 ,454. never had a rod fail but this was like I said short periods of time a drag strip or street.

Today everyone has 4340 grade steel crank not 5140, 4340 grade rods
with much stronger rod bolts. I don't even remember what chevy rods were made of no where near any 4340 grade of steel, pistons and pins
are lighter today easy off the shelf buys.
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Old Dec 22, 2008 | 03:12 PM
  #139  
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I have been mucking about and pondering the idea of what comes after I get bored with the 355. A big bore smallblock sounds good. As does a 502ci big block with an aluminum block.
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Old Dec 22, 2008 | 03:18 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by MotorHead
I don't like the beehive springs, if one breaks it's game over, you drop a valve, with dual springs they both ain't gonna break at the same time
odds are that you'd never really notice the first breakage, though, right?
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